1984: The Stone Roses Take Shape
Manchester, 1984. Hulme council flats, drizzle, and a proper mix of characters: Ian Brown doing odd jobs, John Squire fiddling with his guitar, Pete Garner repping Paperchase, and Simon Wolstencroft fresh from a fish shop.
Before the Roses, there was The Mill: Clint Boon, Mani, and Chris Goodwin rehearsing semi-psychedelic jams in Ashton. Ian and Andy Couzens rock up in a massive American car, take one look at the chaos of bottles and metal percussion, and bail — the Manc supergroup that never quite clicked. Back in Hulme, Geno Washington crashes Ian’s flat party, spliff in hand, blowing smoke in a copper’s face, and tells Ian: “You’re a star, man. Get in a band and go for it.” Ian laughs, but it sticks. Weeks later, Squire has a brainwave: “The Stone Roses.” Hard and soft, beautiful and gritty, proper Manc. And that, as they say in Manchester, was that.
The Mill - 1984 - Ian Brown & Andy Couzens audition and rehearse with The Mill.
Ian Brown & Andy Couzens audition for the band The Mill. They rehearsed a few times but left to form their own group. The band consisted of Clint Boon (soon to be Inspiral Carpets organ player and co-songwriter), Gary 'Mani' Mounfield on bass guitar (former The Waterfront bass player) & Chris Goodwin (former The Waterfront drummer and later to be The High's drummer). Chris would also audition for The Stone Roses too.
The Mill weren’t just a band; they were a prototype for about four future Manc indie line-ups. You had Clint Boon (before the organ and bowl-cut era), Gary “Mani” Mounfield on bass (already collecting iconic bands like he was doing a sticker album), and Chris Goodwin on drums — the lad who’d eventually audition for everyone. If a Manc band rehearsed within ten miles of a canal, Chris was in there having a bash.
Taken from'the early days' article by John Robb louderthanwar.com:
''1984, Brown and Couzens did make one famous trip up to Clint Boon’s rehearsal space in Ashton called The Mill to have a jam with Boon’s pre-Inspiral Carpets outfit named The Mill (or T’Mill depending on which day of the week you asked him).
This was also the very same mill that a young Noel Gallagher would later trudge up to for his ill-fated Inspiral Carpets vocalist audition — a detail that feels almost too on-the-nose for Manchester folklore. The Mill, at that point a three-piece of Boon, Mani on bass or guitar (depending on the day), and Chris Goodwin on drums, were busy conjuring up semi-psychedelic jams featuring metal percussion and general industrial clatter — “a bit like Einstürzende Neubauten,” Boon recalls with a grin years later.
He also remembers Ian Brown and Couzens rolling up in Couzens’ “big American car,” a vehicle so large it probably deserved its own postcode. The five of them squeezed into the rehearsal room-turned-homemade studio and attempted to summon some musical alchemy. But this accidental Manchester supergroup — assembled a full decade before anyone realised they were supposed to be legendary — stubbornly refused to ignite. Ian, unimpressed with the racket, feigned vocal innocence, pretended he'd never sung a note in his life, offered some polite excuses, and made a swift getaway.
Chris Goodwin said: “Ian [Brown] and Andy [Couzens] came down to The Mill rehearsal when Mani, myself and Clint throwing bottles at forklift trucks,” “But Ian took one look at us and he went, ‘Yeah, no thanks. See ya next week.’” “That was another meeting with Brown that didn’t go too well....”
And So It Begins
February 1984
Ian Brown hosts Michelle's 21st birthday party, Top Floor Flat, Charles Barry Building, Hulme, Manchester. Unconfirmed if it was a 'joint' party with Michelle (‘Mitch’) Davitt, Ian Brown's partner. Michelle would later work on the set of Brookside.
Ian Brown meets Geno Washington.
Geno came down with a friend of Ian's who was part of Geno's road crew.
The same night Woody, bass player for the band 'The Worst', stayed at Ian's flat.
From 01 March 1995 -'The Face Magazine' Issue 78, March 95:
The last time I see Ian Brown, he is drinking rum and talking about Marvin Gaye and his “humongously massive soul”. Suddenly, he leans over: “I’m going to tell you something I’ve never told anyone before,” he says. “I went to this party in Hulme once and a mate of mine had come to the party with Geno Washington. Yeah, the Geno Washington, who’d been playing this gig at the university. And Geno came up to me and said to me: ‘You’re a star man, get in a band and go for it. You’re a star.’ And that’s the only reason I’m here now, because Geno Washington told me at a party to go and fookin’ do it. I’d never thought of doing a band until that.” Ian Brown, kung fu guru, (nearly) teetotal rock star, sussed dad and white soul man, rises to go to bed. “God bless you my son,” he gently whispers in my ear. It might have been friendly; it might have been pity...''
From 1998 - Record Collector, December 1997 - Hotel, Park Lane, John Reed Interview/article:
RC: Do you remember a Manchester punk band called the Worst?
IB: I knew their bass player, Woody! He slept at my house one night. He’s ripped me curtains down ‘cos he’s cold but when I go in in the morning, he’s leaned up against the wall and the bed has burnt right round his body like a silhouette where he fell asleep with a cigarette, and the mattress has melted and it’s smouldering. And he was fine! That’s was the same night I met Geno Washington, when he told me I should be a singer.
That was ’83.
RC: How did you meet Geno? IB: My girlfriend was having a party in Hulme. I had a friend who worked at Salford University who was in his road crew and he brought him down. Geno was like, you’re a star, laughing at me, go do the thing. I’d never heard of him apart from that "Geno" song. John was asking me to be a singer at the same time and I wasn’t interested but now I was, like, OK....
Taken from ‘the early days' article by John Robb published 08 April 2011 on louderthanwar.com:
It was around this time that Ian Brown was living in Hulme in the now-demolished legendary council flats near Manchester city centre that were rent-free because the council were too ashamed to grab the money because of the condition they were in. The area was rough and chaotic and full of students, junkies, dealers and arty bohemian types in what was arguably Europe’s biggest squat area. One night Brown was having his 21st birthday party in the crescent when there was a knock on the door and one of Brown’s mates, Glue bag Glen, who had been to see Geno Washington play a gig in town, had brought the singer back to the party. Washington was instantly taken with Brown and declared him to be 'a star' and when the pair went to the Reno club in Moss Side to score some weed, he kept telling Brown to be in a band; “You’re a star, everyone loves you” he kept telling the charismatic young Brown.
At first Ian was laughing it off, but something must have stuck from the soul singer’s proclamation because within a month he got back in touch with John Squire and the pair of them talked of getting band back together, as Brown himself remembers. “So, it was Geno Washington who had sowed the seed. I said to John what had happened at the party and he said, 'Why don’t we give it a go?’''
From John Robb’s The North Will Rise Again Book:
Ian Brown said: I was in William Kent till 1984 and in Charles Barry Crescent in early 84. When I first moved into Hulme the families were still living there. You would get a house full of junkie rich kids from Alderley Edge living next to a bus driver with his family. It was them kids who brought the drugs into Moss Side- the class A’s and the heroine- not the people who lived there with their regular lives. It was all weed in Moss Side before that, I was at 313 and I remember the Fall’s drummer Karl Burns was at 316....So I had moved to Hulme. It was well handy for town. We used to go to the Berlin club and places like that. Later on we went to Deville’s and then the Ritz (Probably the oldest surviving club in Manchester on Whitworth St with its sprung dance floor it still retains the feel of a classic old school venue/club. Great place) on a Monday. This was before the Hacienda- John Gannon the DJ is still there? fucking hell! honestly! (Longest running DJ in Manchester Gannon has been packing them in at the Ritz and Rockworld for more than quarter of a century). I was just hanging out with no ambition to do music. I was seeing a lot of bands. I did see bands like The Meteors and King Kurt, I was not massive into them, I knew kids that dressed like them- I didn’t dress like that though. Ian Brown said: It was Michelle, my girlfriends 21st- the mother of my two eldest- birthday party. Gluebag Glen brought Geno Washington and his bands back to the party in Hulme. I had never heard of Geno Washington at the time, to me he was just this dead cool old black guy who kept telling me that I was a star. He was saying ''look how everyone loves you, look how popular you are. You’re a star. You should be a singer!'' He then said ''Where can I get a spliff?’ so I took him to the Reno club in Moss Side and stood outside whilst he got a spliff. I always remember him smoking the spliff in the street and this copper coming up and saying what the fuck are you doing? And he said 'I’m Geno Washington, I can do whatever I like!'' and carried on smoking the spliff. I thought that was so cool and the cop said ''go back in there and smoke it'' and didn’t even bust him! ''So, he kept going on all night- ''hey man you’re a star, you should be a singer man, look at how the people like you,’ and I said ''it’s our party, these are my friends! that’s why they like me! It was Geno Washington who had sewed the seed. I told John what had happened at the party and he said why don’t we give it a go. The Waterfront had now finished. He was still playing is guitar on his own all the time. You would go round and he always had his guitar round his neck. He would be playing it always- watching telly or walking around, making a brew with the kettle and a guitar round his neck.''
From February 1998 - Uncut magazine Ian Brown interview:
“Anyway, later I’m at this party in Hulme… my mate’s roadie-ing at Salford University, and he brings Geno Washington down to this party. An’ he’s a superstar kind of guy, big personality, all over the room. He comes up to me and he says ‘You’re a star. You’re an actor. Be a singer.’ I remember him on the street smoking a big spliff and this copper comes round sayin’ ‘What are you doing?’. And he’s blowing his spliff in the copper’s face, this is ’83. And he’s goin’ ‘I’m Geno, man. GENO GENO!”, singing the Dexy’s song, really cool. And the copper didn’t do nothing, he just walked away. A few weeks later, I’m thinking about what this guy said. What does he mean I’m a star, an actor? Anyway, I thought we’d give it a go so we kicked Kaiser out and started the real thing, The Stone Roses, in March ’84.”
Only in Manchester could a bloke talk his way out of a drugs telling-off by quoting Dexy’s Midnight Runners at the police.
From Simon Spence War & Peace Unedited Interview with Geno Washington - Soul sensation and life coach:
I was doing a gig at Manchester University. We were staying over the night and I just didn’t just want to go back to the hotel straight away, you know how that is. I was signing some autographs in the back and someone was telling me about this party that was going on, would I like to come? I said, yeah, man. I went to the party and I didn’t really know anybody. I’m in there and the party was jumping but I really wanted a joint instead of just drinking the booze. A nice joint would have made it super good for me, I would have been quite happy. I got to talking to a bunch over in the corner which was Ian Brown and another couple of guys standing in the corner bullshitting and everything. So, I joined them and I got into bullshitting and everything. Then I kept seeing these girls looking at Ian. They’re coming up and talking to him. They all liked him. But Ian’s just a normal guy; he’s not in show business. He’s laughing with the girls, saying, hey, hi, how’s it going, but he isn’t trying to pull, he’s just over here talking with his mates. So, I said to him, yeah, looks like you got a lot of action going on. He said, nah, man, I’m just hanging around. So, I said, hey look, just to make this shit great, have you got any friends that could bring over some smoke? I’ll pay for the shit y’know. He said, Yeah, I got some friends, I’ll give them a call. He’ll be over here right away. I said, really? He said, Yeah, man. So, he called up his friend and this friend came over about 20 minutes later. He had some good shit too. So, I was on the good foot, I felt like I had had more glide in my stride, I had some loot in my flute. So, Ian had done this favour for me. And when someone is nice to me, kind to me, I try and give them something back if I can. I’m standing with the guy, I’m feeling high now, really good, got my mojo going and everything, and here’s a guy; he’s got great personality, got the looks, girls are going crazy over him and of course he’s ignoring them but they’re going crazy over him.
So, I said, look man, you ought to be a pop star, you ought to go into the pop business. I said, you sing? He said, no, I don’t sing. I said do you write songs? He said, no, I don’t write songs either. Goddamn, I said, look when you was in school did you write poetry or some kind of shit like that? He said, Yeah, I wrote a little bit of poetry. I said, well look, listen, because I’m being very serious with you now. Ian, if you write poetry that’s only one inch from writing songs. If you can write poetry baby, you can write songs and that’s where the pie is in the music business. Now, you’ve got the looks, you got the personality, all you need to do is learn how to sing and write your own goddamn songs and you going to be cooking with gas, man. He looked at me and said, really? You think so? I said, I’m telling you the truth. I’m not bullshitting you. You went and got me the joint and all that so I’m trying to help you and tell you a secret that you don’t really know that you have. You go the looks, you got the personality, people love you, you’re like a goddamn magnet. All you got to do is start writing your poems again and then move it songs, just move the shit to songs. You can write songs, get in a band, right… All you have to do is remember when you start off, you’re going to be shit but just think you’re only warming up. Everybody starts off they will be shit. Then the more you do it the more you improve. You got it in your hand, man, do this. Do it for yourself, Ian. He said, Yeah, I’ll look into it. I think I’ll look into it. Okay, I didn’t see Ian no more until about, hell, almost 20 years later, and Ian Brown is the lead singer of The Stone Roses. That motherfucker is more famous than me.
I’m a life coach, hypnotist, anyway… and I was very pleased that he took my advice because I was very serious when I was talking to him. He was very, very interested. He was actually listening. I took him away from his friends, I took him over to another corner and was talking to him seriously, telling him he could do this. It was the same with me. I had the personality, was a dancing fool but I didn’t never think about singing, nothing like that. And boom, I jumped into singing with English groups, singing in pubs and the more you do it the better you get.
23 May 2006 09:41 - The Daily Mail article by Piers Hernu:
"It was 1983 and I was at somebody's 21st birthday party in Manchester when suddenly in walks Geno Washington, the guy Dexy's Midnight Runners sang about in Geno. We got talking and he told me he thought I had star quality and that I should start singing immediately. "In those days in Manchester, being a singer was thought of as effeminate, but my friend John Squire had been asking me to sing for his band for months so I suddenly thought why not? I suppose Geno spotted something in me that I hadn't even spotted myself."
March 1984 - The Stone Roses are formed. Conflicting dates with October 1983.
Conflicting dates float about — October ’83, March ’84 — but that’s Manchester for you: even our history turns up late and swears it was here all along.
Ian George Brown - Vocals
John 'Johnny' Thomas Squire - Lead Guitar
Andy Couzens - Vocals & Rhythm Guitar
Simon Wolstencroft - Drums
Peter Garner - Bass Guitar
Peter Garner was stuck behind the counter at Paperchase, Simon Wolstencroft was flogging fish in Altrincham, John was grafting away at Cosgrove Hall, and Ian was taking on whatever odd jobs Manchester threw at him. Hardly the stuff of rock-and-roll legend — more like the sort of CV you build while waiting for your real life to start.
From May 1990 - Sky Magazine, Jon Wilde article:
The Stone Roses was the title of a 50s pulp thriller that Brown, appropriately, found in a dustbin...
Simon Spence's Unused Chapter from his Book 'War & Peace' noted:
It is late 1983. The Roses have just formed and their image is still, at best, ill defined. Each member looks like they belong to a different band from a different era. Vest tops, roll necks, paisley shirts, leather waistcoats, cardigans, suede jackets, berets, ruffle shirts, bandanas… and tight-legged trousers.''
From John Robb’s The North Will Rise Again Book:
Ian Brown ''We started getting the band together. I rung Pete up to see if he was up for it. He had not been into the scooter scene so I had not seen him for a couple of years. I said Pete 'do you want to play bass in this band?' and he was up for it. At the time John didn’t want Andy Couzens to be in the band- he said he’s different to us, he’s a rich kid. I said he’s got the van, the drum kit, and the amps. I remember John saying we got to get it right as it is, we can’t have Andy in it but I said we got to have him in.''
From Debris Magazine 1988 Interview: John;
“Maybe it's the name. It's a shit name, but I thought it would fit a group with really poppy songs but a bit of dirt and noise as well."
From Simon Spence War & Peace Unedited Peter Garner Interview:
Did John come up with the name? For a long time, we didn’t have a name. Every week when we’d get together to rehearse it was like has anyone come up with a name. Things got suggest and rejected… and it dragged on for ages to the point where John went oh, I think I’ve got a name, I was thinking of The Stone Roses… and we went yeah that’ll do, just because it wasn’t shit. The book thing, he didn’t get it from that, he chose it because he picked two words that were hard and soft… we said, what does it mean, he said it doesn’t mean anything it’s hard and soft which is sort of what we are. Then he found that book in a charity shop in Chorlton and going round to his flat and him going, check this out, and me going no fucking way… the book was just a mad coincidence.
From the NME magazine article 12 November 1988:
''On the band name John said 'The name was a contradiction - something hard and something pretty; something noisy but tuneful' Ian 'It was meant to be happy, not gothy' 'When we did our first gig there loads of people there with black and webs. They were really disappointed to find us come on in uniform black and white shirts like The Beach Boys and have cropped hair...'
From November 1998 - Total Guitar Magazine,
John Squire said: "The original idea was to include art and wild sounds with attractive melodies. We chose the name Stone Roses because it reflected this contradiction."...
From 27 September 2013 - Andy Couzens interview:
How did you first get to know Ian, John, Pete and Reni? ''Pete was a part of a gang that used to hang round where Ian and John lived in Timperley. Reni came along later in response to an advert we put up in a music shop in town.''
'the early days' article by John Robb published 08 April 2011 on louderthanwar.com,
Ian Brown said: 'The Waterfront had now finished but he was still playing his guitar on his own all the time. You would go round and he always had his guitar round his neck. He would be playing it always, watching telly or walking around, making a brew with the kettle with a guitar round his neck. Me and John were still sort of mates even though we had not seen each other properly for a year. We were leading different lives, but we said, let’s get this band thing going''
Taken from ‘The early days' article by John Robb published 08 April 2011 on louderthanwar.com:
'Both of them agreed to get Pete Garner in on bass even though he couldn’t play, but they innately understood that bands are gangs and the affable Garner was everyone’s mate, because he was working in town at the key Paperchase record shop and knew all the new young faces in town including Johnny Marr (who he shared a bus ride home from work with). He also vaguely knew the pre-Smiths Morrissey, who he had chatted about the New York Dolls with. Despite John’s reservations they got Andy Couzens in on guitar and Si Wolstencroft in on drums. “It was like getting The Patrol back together,'' laughs Brown, who had moved from bass to vocals. The band, installed with an unlikely work ethic, began to rehearse hard in early 1984, and I remember them moving in next door to where my band The Membranes were rehearsing in South Manchester, and we became friends...''
From John Robb’s The North Will Rise Again Book:
Johnny Marr:
When I was working at Aladdin’s Cave on the ground floor of the Arndale (in those pre-Affleck’s Palace days a real hive of alternative culture was in the underground market below Affleck’s which was noted for 'Bowie bootleg tapes and Tuukka boots’ amongst other things) I used to get the bus with Pete in the mornings and each night. He became a really good mate. He could see the way I was dressing and all of that and was interested. I really liked this guy. I remember we were getting the 99 back to Wythenshawe one night and he was trying to come up with a name for his band that he had just started in. He knew I was a Stones freak. He got off a few stops after me saying the name has got to be as good as the Rolling Stones. When I got home and the phone goes five minutes later and it was Pete and he says ''I’ve been talking about it-what about the Stone Roses’ and I said naah! that’s too obvious Pete!’...I got Pete into a lot of that stuff although I think he was already into the Dolls. Pete lived between me and my girlfriend. He was this great guy. There wasn’t many of them around, it was one of those rare things of someone who wants to be in a band. He was working in the original Paperchase. I was in there all the time. He had dead long hair and he would talk through his hair all the time. That was around the time I had started rehearsing with the Smiths.
23 September 2005 Friday 23:59 - The Guardian Newspaper article, by Simon Hattenstone, Interview by Simon in a Milkshake bar in West London:
The band had become so different to what they'd set out to be. He tells me why they chose the name Stone Roses. "We wanted something that said we were hard but we were beautiful and John came up with Stone Roses. Hard but beautiful, like a typical northerner. And it's something lasts for ever, a stone rose."
And somehow, out of this glamorous collection of part-time grafters and full-time dreamers, the Roses were born — not with a grand plan, just the usual Manc recipe:
a couple of mates, a few battered amps, and the eternal local belief that “we could do it better than that lot.”
20 February 1984 - Ian Brown's 21st birthday
1984 - Johnny Marr approached Ian Brown to form a band.
From John Robb’s The North Will Rise Again Book:
Ian Brown said: ''The Smiths had come out of Manchester that year and were now big. I used to go to parties with Andy Rourke and everyone knew Johnny Marr because he used to run round the pubs telling everyone he’s going to be number one and a year later he was!''
Johnny Marr said: ''People always say I did that but I swear I didn’t! When I was putting Freaky Party together, I got really tempted to really go and personally talk to Ian Brown and say ''listen- come and be in our band. I knew Ian Brown through Pete (Garner) and also Si our drummer had gone to school with him. We had met a couple of times. We had that kind of respectful rivalry. I knew John Squire better. We were checking each other out like you do- we would talk about records and there was an unsaid understanding that Ian and john were an item- so that’s what stopped me asking Ian. I always respected and liked John and they had a real good understanding of each other- me and Andy were like that and me and Morrissey were as well in a different kind of way.
Ian Brown said: Johnny Marr is a great bloke, proper, really into music. He was only 23 when the Smiths split and we were 25 when we did our first album. We might have looked 19, I thought if we don’t do it this year, we will never do it. We did love The Smiths music and the fact that they had come out of the Manchester area and made it really gee’d us up. I got all the early Smiths tapes because Pete lived opposite Melanie who was going out with Andy Rourke at the time and she gave Pete all the tapes of them rehearsing. I thought the first album was a bit disappointing not produced good but 'This Charming Man' was a great pop tune...Morrissey was great pop star because he was so unlikely with his national health glasses on- no way could he be a normal pop star! He was clever as fuck and his interviews were funny as fuck. That was inspiring to us to see someone making it who was like yourselves- not that Morrissey was that much like us!
Pete Garner ''I liked the Smiths as people. When I was about younger, I had met this kid who was into punk because we both got the same bus home from work and that turned out to be Johnny Marr. I was impressed because he liked the Heartbreakers. I had just bought the ''Live At Max’s Kansas City’ (classic Velvet Underground live album recorded in 1970 and released a couple of years later) album and I went round to his house. I knew him from those times and he worked at X Clothes and I worked at Paperchase in town...Andy Rourke used to go out with girl who lived opposite me- so I got to know all them. Johnny Marr and Mike Joyce were brilliant guys. I had already met Morrissey at Paper chase (cool alternative book and record shop managed by Pete- he was the first person your author got to know in Manchester because he would take my fanzine, 'Rox and sell it) where I worked when I was 16. He came up to the counter and said” can you still get lyrics from the first Dolls album?’ and I said ''you’ve got to be kidding!'' He walks off and then a few months later he does that New York Dolls book (” the New York Dolls’ by Morrissey on Babylon books, is as you would expect a fantastic account of one of the greatest rock n roll bands ever- full of barbed wit and fierce rhetoric, it’s one of the great rock n roll books which remains curiously undiscovered)) which I had to have being a massive Dolls fan.''
March 1984 - Andy Couzens House, Rehearsal, Macclesfield
Nowhere Fast (Just A Little Bit)
From John Robb’s The North Will Rise Again Book:
Ian Brown ''Me and John were still sort of mates even though we had not seen each other properly for a year because we were leading different lives, but we said let’s get this band thing going so we met up and we wrote this tune ‘Nowhere Fast’ a song about our attitude that you don’t have to go to work, its punk rock! no fucker is gonna tell us what to do. By then I’d had a few shit jobs and now I was on the dole and that was it. I was never working for no-one again. You soon adapt to living on beans on toast. To make money you do the odd insurance job- you had your record player nicked- that sort of thing- mind you in Hulme you would get burgled all the time anyway.''
Andy Couzens said: The first rehearsal was actually at my parent’s house. We wrote a song that night- ''Nowhere Fast'' it had another title then; I can’t remember what the name was now. John had a bit of a riff and Si started drumming. We just worked on new stuff, there was no Patrol or Waterfront songs. It was a total clean break. We rehearsed a lot- a few times a week. I was still at my parent’s place.
From Simon Spence War & Peace Unedited Peter Garner Interview:
We rehearsed quite a few different places but we rehearsed in Andy’s cellar for a while. He’s the only one who had a big house, huge house. No, he didn’t have a swimming pool, full size snooker table, which was a wow… it was free, we could leave all the gear set up and the house was big enough we could play and not disturb his parents…
1984 - Ian Brown went for singing lessons with Mrs Rhodes over Victoria Station, Manchester
1998 - Record Collector, December 1997 - Hotel, Park Lane, John Reed Interview/article:
RC: Then you formed the Roses?
IB: Yeah, we started a few rehearsals and everyone’s like, fuck, we can’t put up with that. You’ll have to have singing lessons. So I went to this old woman over Victoria Station, Mrs Rhodes. She’d get me there at six o’clock, open the window, with everyone coming home from work. She’d have me wailing "After the Goldrush" or "Strawberry Fields" out the window. The crowds looking up and she’s saying, if you can’t do it, go home. So I thought, fuck it, I’ll stick it out. So I did three weeks with her. She had an 80-year-old dear on the piano!
From Simon Spence War & Peace Unedited Peter Garner Interview:
And Ian went for singing lessons? He went for two or something. Have you seen the Sex Pistols film, Great Rock N Roll Swindle, when they do the music teacher who taught Johnny rotten to sing… McLaren sent him once or twice … so it’s gone down in myth he had singing lessons. It was a bit like that, Ian probably went to get taught how to breathe and stuff but it was something and nothing.
March 2000 - Jockey Slut Magazine includes a Ian Brown Q&A Session:
Did you really see a vocal coach after Reading? Stephen Smith, Bradford. "No. I had a vocal coach when I first started. The first rehearsal I did in '84 the lads were like (grimaces), 'Woah, you're going to have to do something about that'. So I went to see this old lady near Victoria Station in Manchester. I was doing Neil Young tunes, 'Strawberry Fields', but she'd have me doing it at six o'clock at night when everyone was coming home from work. She used to make me stand by the window with the window open singing away and everybody would be looking up at me. She'd say, 'If you can't do it now you won't be able to do it any other time'. So it did me good, but I only went to three lessons in '84."
March 1984 - Andy Couzens House, Rehearsal, Macclesfield
Tradjic Roundabout (Tragic Roundabout) / Mission Impossible
Ian wrote the lyrics for all the bands early songs, all the way up until (and including) Sally Cinnamon.
1998 - Record Collector, December 1997 - Hotel, Park Lane, John Reed Interview/article:
RC: Do you recall any early songs?
IB: "Tragic Roundabout". The lyrics were good, about Martin Luther King. "Heart On The Staves". They were all sort of furious. They had some kind of passion.
March 1984 - Rehearsals, Manchester.
Nowhere Fast (Just A Little Bit) / Mission Impossible / Tradjic Roundabout
The Stone Roses start writing songs together, Ian brings the lyrics to rehearsal sessions.
From 27 September 2013 - Andy Couzens interview:
''Tell us about the Garage Flower songs. This album represented our first set, with the first song we ever wrote together as the Roses, namely Just A Little Bit (originally called Nowhere Fast), followed by Mission Impossible and Tradjic Roundabout. These were pre-Reni, although obviously he's on these recordings. ''
From John Robb’s The North Will Rise Again Book:
Peter Garner
''The first rehearsal was February/March 1984 and the first song we did was 'Nowhere Fast'. This is with Si (Wolstencroft) who was now our drummer.'' Andy Couzens ''I always thought there was something about Pete. He’s just a great bloke Pete, someone who is great to have around. Whether he could play or not was irrelevant. The fact was he was great to have around, it added to the thing. John came in the end, getting John in was almost like a default- he was like ''oh fuck it go on then...''. It just felt right John said he would only do it if Pete’s in the band. It just ended up getting The Patrol back together- the big reformation.''
April 1984 - The Boardwalk, Rehearsal Rooms, Manchester
The venue and rehearsal rooms had only just opened, Little Peter Street. The rehearsal rooms were based in the cellar. The venue was a converted school house, which was next door to where Joy Division used to rehearse in the city centre.
From John Robb’s The North Will Rise Again Book:
Pete Garner said: You’ve got to remember that the only bass line I knew was The Sweet’s ‘Blockbuster’. I couldn’t play bass at all and I had only played that once at that Patrol gig. I think it was a case of ''always get your mate in on bass.'' At our first rehearsal everyone strapped on guitars and I was thinking ''what the fuck do I do!'' In the next few months, we rehearsed everywhere. We even did the Boardwalk once and never went back because the room was shit. Later on, we rehearsed at the Chorlton Lock Up which had something to do with Spirit rehearsal studios. (This is where I met the band, my band The Membranes had just to Manchester from Blackpool and we were rehearsing next door to them. The other band in the rooms was Carmel.)
From Simon Spence War & Peace Unedited Peter Garner Interview:
I remember Ian telling me he’d see the Stranglers and I was jealous. The reason I ended up being a bass player was because of Jean-Jacques Burnel, because I love his bass playing. I don’t think they were the best band in the world but that was the best bass sound I’d ever heard.
April 1984 - Simon Wolstencroft leaves the band.
Simon left to join The Colourfield (formed by Terry Hall in Manchester, ex-Specials singer). Simon also went on to drum for an early Smiths line-up before joining The Fall. The band auditioned Howard Daniels, the drummer from Yorkshire goth band The Skeletal Family but he did not join the band.
From John Robb’s The North Will Rise Again Book:
Andy Couzens: Si had left to join the Smiths when they started up. So, we started auditioning drummers. I put an advert up in A1 music in town... the drummer from the Skeletal family came down but that didn’t work out. We rehearsed for ages with no drums at all which is ridiculous when you think about it- you’d get a drum machine now...
From Simon Spence War & Peace Unedited Peter Garner Interview:
Andy said when Si joined the Colourfield, he felt abandoned? I didn’t see it like that and I don’t think Ian and John saw it like that. We got the Patrol back together, I was in the band, Ian was singing, we were all mates, we were rehearsing it was great fun… and then Si was obviously looking for work… all we’re doing is rehearsing, we’re not doing any gigs…. I can’t play so I’m learning what I can and then Si gets a sniff of some work, it’s the Colourfield, wea ll love the Specials. So, I remember at the time going good luck to you man. I remember him listening to their stuff and learning it… it didn’t seem like the abandonment thing… Andy’s got a totally different outlook…
10 April 1984 - Reni's 20th birthday
1984 - Chris Goodwin Audition
Chris (former The Waterfront drummer) came down to hear what the band was doing but he was not interested. He was already in T'Mill but was looking for another originals band, who he found in T’Challa grid and later Asia Fields. Chris was drumming in a covers band formerley called 'Weakstones Bridge', at the time known as 'Exit'. Chris and Andy would later re-unite for Buzzcocks F.O.C. and then for form The High.
Chris said: “I did go back again but the songs were too heavy compared to what I was into. I was more into the Waterfront stuff, Orange Juice-y, Postcard Records type stuff. They went off to do more heavy stuff. Not goth but…..”
Andy Couzens said: ''I had got Chris Goodwin in on drums initially. He came down for one rehearsal and left his kit in the cellar. It was like he was just looking for somewhere to store it.''
25 April 1984 - Clint Boon and Mani saw R.E.M. play live at The Gallery in Manchester — the kind of gig people later claim they were at even when they definitely weren’t. It was also where Blackpool musician and writer John Robb met Mani for the first time, a brief encounter that would eventually earn Robb a lifetime membership in the “I knew him back when” club.
May 1984 - Andy Couzens House, Rehearsal, Macclesfield
Nowhere Fast (Just A Little Bit) / All Stitched Up / I Can’t Take I Anymore / Mission Impossible / Tragic Roundabout / Coming Of Age.
Rehearsals without a drummer are never ideal — more interpretive guesswork than rhythm section — but that’s how All Stitched Up came together. Also known as All Stripped Down, the track made a brief appearance at their debut London show in 1984 and then promptly vanished into the fog of music history.
It’s never surfaced on a bootleg, not even the sort recorded on a 1980s dictaphone hidden in a parka. Its existence survives only through John Robb’s biography and Pete Garner’s off-hand mention in The Stone Roses: War and Peace. Whether All Stripped Down was a different version, a different title, or just someone misremembering after a long night is unclear — but in true Roses fashion, the mystery is half the charm.
1998 - Record Collector, December 1997 - Hotel, Park Lane, John Reed Interview/article:
RC: Weren’t you called English Rose for a while, after the Jam song?
IB: No, I don’t know where that’s come from. John thought up the name "Stone Roses" – something with a contrast, two words that went against each other.
From February 1998 - Uncut magazine Ian Brown interview:
There’s a story that we were called English Rose, but that’s untrue.
From Simon Spence War & Peace Unedited Peter Garner Interview:
English Rose? Same again… we all liked the Jam so that’s where they got that from but I think that was from the Waterfront period… we were never called that as the Roses…We rehearsed quite a few different places but we rehearsed in Andy’s cellar for a while. He’s the only one who had a big house, huge house. No, he didn’t have a swimming pool, full size snooker table, which was a wow… it was free, we could leave all the gear set up and the house was big enough we could play and not disturb his parents… The early songs, …Certainly the music is purely John. Andy will quibble. It’s easy for me, I didn’t write any of it. As far as I was concerned, I was just learning to play this beast I had round my neck. We started rehearsing, we’d look to John who’d worked something out at home, and he played that and we’d work that up, play it over and over. The next rehearsal John would have another riff. I’m not saying Andy didn’t do anything but, in my mind, it was nearly all John. He co-wrote the lyrics with Ian, they sat and wrote the lyrics together. But it’s nearly all John at that point, the creative input for the music… which it was in The Patrol really, so really it was just like an extension of The Patrol but Ian was the singer rather than Andy...That lasted a month in the set and we didn’t continue with it. There’s a few like that…
23 May 2006 09:41 - The Daily Mail Ian Brown Interview, article by Piers Hernu:
He pauses for a moment. "I'd mentioned Strangeways' tower in one of our early Roses songs because it's such a menacing feature of Manchester's skyline. I always used to wonder what it was like inside. When I got to find out, I thought, 'Now why the f*** did you wonder that?'
1984 - Ian & John visit Corbieres Wine Cavern, Manchester
23 May 2006 - The Daily Mail article by Piers Hernu:
It was during the next few formative months, when Brown was finding his feet as a singer, that he and Squire would frequent Corbieres Wine Cavern in Manchester, taking turns to play their favourite tracks on its jukebox. 'We always used to buy each other a box of Maltesers at Christmas...' "Corbieres was famous for having the best jukebox in town and I believe it still has. We'd hang out there with other new Manchester bands like The Happy Mondays and listen to classic songs. Ever since then I've always fancied owning one, but it's one of those things I haven't got round to buying... yet!"
1998 - Record Collector, December 1997 - Hotel, Park Lane, John Reed Interview/article:
RC: I heard the Happy Mondays used to kick your scooter over!
IB: We used to go to the beehive in Eccles and the scooter boys used to fight with the lads from that area – where the Mondays were from, Swinton. So yeah, we used to fight them every week. Years later, we laughed about it.
June 1984 - Alan 'Reni' Wren replied to an advert that Andy put up in A1 Music Store in Manchester.
Taken from 'the early days' article by John Robb published 08 April 2011 on louderthanwar.com:
''They set up an audition and went round to pick up the young drummer, who apparently answered the door of his Gorton house in his moon boots and not much else, and his extrovert nature caught the quieter Roses on the hop. On the tape of Reni’s first rehearsal, you can hear Reni’s exuberant enthusiasm in the rehearsal room as he introduces himself to the band before getting behind the kit to play along to Tragic Roundabout’, instantly turning the song into a Roses song.''
From John Robb’s The North Will Rise Again Book: Pete Garner:
Chris Goodwin hadn’t really been into being the drummer. He thought we were too rock at the time! And now Si had left. We were still writing songs with no drummer. Then the Skeletal Family drummer turned up and he was doing lots of toms, doing all this tribal shit! He said ''I can’t hear the tune” and we said ''play a straight beat mate.’...We put more ads up for a drummer and waited. It was the poster we put in A1 that Reni saw, He has told me since that it looked like there was something about it. It was a simple poster with list of influences on it and said” the Stone Roses require a drummer’- even though no-one had ever heard of us at the time we put the band’s name on it!
1984 - Decibel Rehearsal Rooms, Decibel Studios, Beehive Mill, Manchester
Tradjic Roundabout / Tradjic Roundabout / Tradjic Roundabout
Reni’s debut audition was captured on tape — the whole thing. Someone even knocked up about a hundred cassette copies, complete with artwork courtesy of John, because of course they did. The tape featured multiple takes of Tradjic Roundabout, plus all the in-between band chatter: the sort of stuff that sounds mundane at the time and priceless thirty years later.
Decibel Studios, where it all happened, was the same place The Smiths used for some of their early demos — clearly the spot to go if you were a Manchester band hoping to become “the next big thing” on a budget of about £4.50. Every rehearsal meant Reni and the lads hauling his entire drum kit and the rest of the gear up three flights of stairs. Proper graft. By the time they reached the top, they’d practically earned a record deal on cardio alone.
Taken from 'the early days' article by John Robb published 08 April 2011 on louderthanwar.com:
''On the tape of Reni’s first rehearsal, you can hear Reni’s exuberant enthusiasm in the rehearsal room as he introduces himself to the band before getting behind the kit to play along to Tragic Roundabout’, instantly turning the song into a Roses song.''
John Robb responded to a stone roses article on Louder Than War regarding the tape, saying "I do still have the cassette of the audition/rehearsal but it’s not mine to put onto youtube…""
07 January 2018 - thestoneroses.co.uk published an interview with Matt Mead Notes: '
'We interview Matt Mead, who is currently writing the book Flowered Up and who recently was able to share a short clip from The Stone Roses Elephant Stone recording sessions. You’re a huge Roses collector and i know you’re not able to share some of the items you have or have come across, but what are you top 3 rare items that you have seen/have access too? Reni’s first rehearsal. This is the very first time Reni rehearses with the band. Not a great sound to the recording but historic all the same.
From John Robb’s The North Will Rise Again Book:
Andy Couzens said: The first time Reni rehearsed with us was in Decibel studios. We were booked it to rehearse with Reni specially. Reni rang up- he denies it now but he called himself Renee on the phone! Me and Ian went to pick him up. We knocked on this door in Gorton and Reni came to the door. I seem to remember he looked mad! he had a big long coat on and big furry moon boots- a pair of them awful stretch denim jeans, his dress sense was fucking terrible! We were a bit shocked! We put all his kit in the car and went back to the rehearsal room...Yeah! it was weird. We loaded his gear into the car and went to the rehearsal room. We took the gear up three flights of stairs and he started playing. He was mad as a hatter. He played like Keith Moon, amazing. All those little things that he can do like double hits, unbelievable stuff, so fluent and no effort. He could actually do all that, amazing. We wanted him in he was that fucking good but we weren’t sure if he was going to have it! We weren’t that good at all; we were still pretty rough. He told me a while later that the thing that really struck was how much we believed in ourselves- the sense of belief that he got from us all. His best friend, Simon Wright, had been in Manchester rock band called Tora Tora before joining AC/DC. If he hadn’t had joined us, he would have ended up as a jobbing musician. There was deathly silence and someone said are you up for it or what Reni? He joined us that night.
Pete Garner said: 'Tragic Roundabout’ was the first song we played to Reni. He’d played in loads of bands before- his mate, Simon Wright, had joined AC/DC. We saw them on TV and Reni said there’s my mate. Simon Wright- he was older than Reni and had showed him some stuff. Reni’s mum and dad ran a pub with a drum kit set up for bands in the pub. After school Reni would play the kit. When he joined us, he was already in two other bands. He was checking out who was the best bet- I’m not definite about this. He thought we looked interesting and there was something going on, we had something! When he started playing on ‘Tragic Roundabout’ it was incredible. We definitely had something then! We never discussed it. We knew he was in. He was fucking amazing! what a drummer...With the best drummer of his generation in the band the Roses were ready to go out and play. The mid-eighties music scene was a different beast than the modern one. Split into mini scenes in the post punk fallout it was going to take some navigating.
From Simon Spence War & Peace Unedited Peter Garner Interview:
That’s really when it gets serious from the moment he turns up. At the time, I’d never met the guy, we talked about what stuff we’d done before. We probably told him about The Patrol and playing Portland bars… and he’d basically been playing in rock bands since… his mum and dad ran a pub in I think Denton, it was like a pub where they’d have rock bands on… and he was an amazing freak drummer as a kid… so they’d have a drum kit set up in the pub that he had access to…. he’d played with like some quite big local rock bands from his area…he’d already done proper gigs which none of us had really done, aside from half a dozen Patrol gigs… he was like way beyond us… I hope he tells you about all that side of it.
Ian Brown: 'Tragic Roundabout' was first tune we did with Reni and we realised that this was it!
Ian George Brown - Vocals
John Thomas Squire - Lead Guitar
Andy Couzens - Rhythm Guitar, Backing Vocals
Peter Garner - Bass Guitar
Alan John 'Reni' Wren - Drums, Backing Vocals
1984 - The Lock Up, Chorlton, Manchester
Nowhere Fast / All Stitched Up / Mission Impossible / Tradjic Roundabout
They shared a rehearsal space with Easterhouse, who were being billed in the press as “the next Smiths” — a title handed out in Manchester about twice a week back then. The Roses didn’t last long in the room, though; they were booted out after some equipment mysteriously went missing.
Andy Couzens put it bluntly: “One of Reni’s mates and Reni nicked a load of their gear and some of our gear as well… but he always disputed it.” A classic Manc defence — deny everything, even when caught holding the amplifier.
The place was run by Steve Adge, who’d later become the Roses’ tour manager and the mastermind behind their Flower Shows warehouse parties. Meanwhile, John Robb’s band The Membranes were also rehearsing there, making the space a sort of accidental Manchester musical crossroads — half creative hub, half crime scene.
From John Robb’s The North Will Rise Again Book:
Peter Garner said: In the next few months we rehearsed everywhere. We even did the Boardwalk once and never went back because the room was shit. Later on, we rehearsed at the Chorlton Lock Up which had something to do with Spirit rehearsal studios. (This is where I met the band, my band The Membranes had just to Manchester from Blackpool and we were rehearsing next door to them. The other band in the rooms was Carmel.)
Mike Pickering said: I remember the Roses really early on, seeing them a couple of time when they rehearsed in Spirit in Chorlton behind the car showroom in a place with Carmel next door. The Roses were a bit psychedelic- not a Goth band like some people say. They were not scallies- maybe in their attitude but they didn’t dress like scallies. Ian was at the Hacienda all the time- he lived there! So, I knew him really well.
From Simon Spence War & Peace Unedited Peter Garner Interview:
Moved to the Lock Up in Chorlton… I can’t remember why we went down there. The Smiths used to rehearse down there as well, next door to us. It was a decent room. I think it was because Ian and John were both living in Chorlton by this point… I was living in town so a lot of time we used to meet at my flat in town…
1984 - Ian Brown leaves the DSS office, Dane Road, Sale.
From May 2002 - Trafford Today Newspaper:
A colleague recalls him coming in with a list of names and asking everybody which one they thought was best. That was when the band became The Stone Roses....After two years, Ian reluctantly resigned from his job, when a two-month tour of Scandinavia and beckoning stardom meant he could no longer give it the attention he felt it deserved.
1984 - Ian Brown inbetween jobs
During his time on the dole, Ian managed to tick off Spain, France, Italy, Holland, and Berlin from his “Europe on a shoestring” tour. Somewhere between tapas and tram rides, he met a Swedish gig promoter who, with the confidence of a man predicting the weather, insisted that The Stone Roses were the next big thing. Sure enough, the Swede took the plunge, booking the band for a string of dates in Sweden—proof that sometimes all it takes is one enthusiastic stranger to turn a dream into a Scandinavian tour.
August 1984 - Spirit Studios, Tariff Street, Manchester
Tragic Roundabout / The Misery Dictionary (So Young) / Mission Impossible / Nowhere Fast (Just A Little Bit)
The 8 track demo tape recording is on one side only and lasts 15 minutes. Recorded on a, newly installed, Brennel eight-track machine overnight at Spirit.
Apparently the band 'borrowed' they keys to the studios from the cleaner and invited themselves into the studio to record. Following the poor attempt of a break-in, Reni and Squire slapped a bit of paint on the walls in the live room, locked the Secretary out of the studios, and set to work on their demo. Despite the crackly faders, the touch-and-go mics, the temperamental wiring and the hand-dryer which triggered the 8-track machine, The Stone Roses recorded their first demo tape."
The paper on the cassette has been spray painted, by John Squire, in red and reads ''THE STONE ROSES''. Running Time - 15 Mins. Telephone numbers featured and a south Didsbury Flat address too "Spirit Studios Demos 1984. 8 Track Demo 1984. Tragic Roundabout / The Misery Dictionary / Mission Impossible / Just A Little Bit"
The Spirit Studios closed and became the Kosmonaut bar. The studios were underground. The building in question though on Tariff Street in Manchester’s Northern Quarter is still there today. The date is often noted as 'January 1985' and the session's production is credited to Tim Oliver (see 'January 1985').
So Young is known as its original title 'The Misery Dictionary'. Both The Misery Dictionary & Nowhere Fast would later be re-named as they were being linked to fellow Manchester band 'The Smiths' song titles. The Smiths released a song called Nowhere Fast on the album 'Meat Is Murder' which would later be released 11 February 1985.
The 1984 demo tape went on display at the 30 Years of Spirit Exhibition during April 2014 along with a selection of other artists photos and memorabilia. Entry was free and took place at Kosmonaut on Tariff Street.
A copy of the demo tape was sold at auction, see the details here...Auction Date: 20 May 2015 20:00 BST - LOT 968 (Unsold, it did not meet the reserve price.) - Omega Auctions, Omega's offices, unit 3.5 Meadow Mill, Stockport - Second Auction Date: 26 Nov 2015 10:30 GMT - LOT 1032 (Sold) Auction description: THE STONE ROSES - ridiculously rare and the earliest Stone Roses demo cassette you will find dating from 1984 and recorded at Spirit Studios. The recording is on one side only and lasts 15 minutes. The paper on the cassette has been spray painted in red and reads ''THE STONE ROSES'' c1984. Tracks to include 'Tragic Roundabout', 'So Young', 'Mission Impossible' and 'Nowhere Fast'.
1998 - Record Collector, December 1997 - Hotel, Park Lane, John Reed Interview/article:
RC: What were your influences then? The Smiths?
IB: I liked the fact that the Smiths came from our home town and I knew Andy Rourke when I was a kid, so I was happy for them. I liked "What Difference Does It Make?" but after that, no, not really....RC: Did you do any demo tapes? Yeah, we did one that was limited to a hundred copies but I don’t have it anymore. All my stuff got nicked years later so I don’t even have a copy myself!
From Simon Spence's Book 'War & Peace':
Stephen ‘Cressa’ Cresser hung out with both the Mondays and Roses at rehearsals (for a while both bands rehearsed at the same place, the legendary Spirit studios). As the Roses were only playing sporadic gigs in this period, Cressa became a roadie for the more active Mondays.
From John Robb’s The North Will Rise Again Book:
Ian Brown said: Me and Andy drove down to London. We walked into a studio and saw this PA on the floor. We picked it up, put it in the back of his car and drove back to A1 music in Manchester and swopped it for an amp and then swopped another bit of it at Spirit for a drum kit. We had started rehearsing at Spirit in town by then in 1984.
From ilovemanchester.com 20 November 2017 Dave Haslam wrote:
''Even if you’re a regular drinker in Kosmonaut on Tariff Street in Manchester’s Northern Quarter, you might not know that the building, an old warehouse, used to be rehearsal rooms and a recording studio called Spirit. It was where drummer Mike Joyce was summoned by Morrissey and Marr to audition for the Smiths. Spirit wasn’t grand, but it didn’t have to be. It was a cheap, entry-level 4-track studio which made it accessible to bands wanting to record demo tapes in their quest to be signed to a label. The first Stone Roses demo tape was recorded at Spirit in August 1984.''
May 2002 - From The Very Best Of 2002 sleeve notes, article by John McCready:
John: But that didn't happen overnight. It took five years. Five years of rehearsals and shitty cassettes and slightly better demo tapes. We were looking at the Pistols and The Beatles and The Byrds and thinking we could have a go at them. We would just try and compete on that level.
It is not known when the deliberate misspelling of the song was decided. It had appeared on bootlegs prior to its official release on "Garage Flower" under the spelling of "Tragic Roundabout". It is possible the spelling of tradjic was only decided on around 1996 when the album was eventually released.
Official: Spirit Studios Demos 1984 (Cassette)
And On The Sixth Day Whilst God Created Manchester...The Lord Created The Stone Roses (November 1989.
Bootleg Vinyl White Label, was mentioned in May 1990 - Sky Magazine article.)
''The following tracks are all taken from various demos/sessions:'' Tragic Roundabout (Tradjic Roundabout) (August 1984 - Spirit Studios) / Misery Dictionary (So Young) (August 1984 - Spirit Studios) / Mission Impossible (August 1984 - Spirit Studios) / Nowhere Fast (Just A Little Bit) (August 1984 - Spirit Studios) / Trust A Fox (1985 - Garage Flower Session) / All I Want (1985 - Garage Flower Session) / Fall (not listed on sleeve) (1985 - Garage Flower Session) / Gettin' Plenty (You Can Have Me, Wherever You Want Me) (Getting Plenty) (1985 - Garage Flower Session) / Heart On The Staves (fades out 2:45) (1985 - Garage Flower Session) / I Wanna Be Adored - Heart On The Staves (24 March 1985 - Piccadilly Radio Session) / Tell Me (not listed on sleeve) (24 March 1985 - Piccadilly Radio Session) / Waterfall (1987 unconfirmed, see Strawberry Studios) / / Elephant Stone (with different words) (12 December 1986 - Chorlton) / Shoot You Down (Drum Machine version) (1987 unconfirmed, see Strawberry Studios) / (less than a second cut off from The Hardest Thing In The World (1986 - Yacht Club Studios, Bredbury, Manchester) / This Is The One (1985 - Garage Flower Session) / (Song For My) Sugar Spun Sister (12 December 1986 - Chorlton) / The Sun Still Shines (listed but not included)
23 October 1984 Tuesday - Anti-Heroin Benefit, Moonlight Club, Hampstead, London
Doors Open: 20:00 * Ticket Price: £2.50 * Supporting: Pete Townshend, Mercenary Skank & High Noon.
Songs Played - Mission Impossible / Just A Little Bit (Nowhere Fast) / All Stitched Up (All Stripped Down) / Tradjic Roundabout / Heart On The Staves.
Reni joins Pete Townsend & The High Noon onstage for: Pictures Of Lily / Substitute / The Kids Are Alright.
Pete Townsend organised the event. The evening ended in a jam session involving Pete Townshend, Reni and members of High Noon, performing The Who songs Pictures of Lily, Substitute and The Kids Are Alright.
Ian saw an advert in Sounds Magazine 1984 that asked for bands to take part in an anti-heroin benefit in support of Pete Townshend‘s Double O Charity. He sent a demo tape and a letter "I'm surrounded by skagheads, I wanna smash 'em. Can you give us a show?" to Caroline Read (manager of Mercenary Skank) and she booked the band.
Caroline was so impressed with the demos and the show she became their first manager, she booked them for a couple of London shows before Howard "Ginger" Jones, Factory Records director, came along. Caroline shot a video of the event, but has never shared any copies.
The show was seen by journalists including Sounds' Garry Johnson, who arranged to interview the band a few weeks later.
Townsend was openly impressed with Reni. Ian Brown said: “We came offstage and Townshend was, like, ‘You look really good up onstage and your drummer’s great'...Then he said, ‘I want to play a couple of tunes’, and he asked Reni, ‘Do you want to do it?‘ Reni’s like, ‘Yeah!’ "We were like, ‘Shit, Reni's gonna leave. Townshend's nicking Reni.''.
All Stitched Up was also known as All Stripped Down, one of few songs which have never circulated on the bootleg circuit.
1998 - Record Collector, December 1997 - Hotel, Park Lane, John Reed Interview/article:
RC: When did you start to play gigs?
IB; We met Reni in early ’84 and the first Roses gig was in December in the Moonlight in Hampstead, an anti-heroin benefit that Pete Townshend put on. I’d seen an advert in the paper saying they were looking for bands. I lived in Hulme, where everyone was on skag except me. So I wrote a letter saying I’m surrounded by skagheads, I wanna smash ‘em. Can you give us a show? And they did. The other groups were mercenary Skank and High Noon, who all wore cowboy hats like Gary Cooper! (laughs)
RC: Didn’t Reni play with Townshend?
IB: He did "Pictures Of Lily", "Substitute", He was made up – his first ever gig and there he was wth Pete Townshend! We come off stage and Townshend was like, you look really good up there and your drummer's great. Then he said, as an end-of-the-night thing, I wanna play a couple of tunes. Do you want to do it? Reni’s like, yeah! We’d do soundchecks and Reni had people with their mouths open!
From Simon Spence War & Peace Unedited Peter Garner Interview:
Caroline Reed had organised it, so we did our soundcheck, our first soundcheck, we did the Nazz cover, and she came over after the soundcheck and said have you got a manager, I want to manage you… just on the strength of that. Yeah, why not? She videoed the gig and then Townshend asked Reni to drum with him, and he did… did maybe 3 or 4 Who tunes and one of them Reni didn’t know the song. I was on the side of the stage and he mouthed to me, how does it go? It was surreal, what an experience. But I was thinking, shit man, our secret weapon is out of the bag, he’s going to get poached...Heart On The Staves… That was another thing that annoyed us at the time was the tortured artist, false emotion thing, that’s where Heart On The Staves comes from…
The Promo poster read: ''A Special Benefit Concert. In Aid Of 'Community Drug Project' Oct' 23 Tuesday The Moonlight Club, West Hampstead. Mercenary Skank appearing together with High Noon & Stone Roses. Doors Open 8pm. Please and Support! ADM £2.50''
A video shot by Mercenary Skank's manager Caroline Read, still remains unreleased. At least one photo has been released from the show though.
21 November 1984 - Adlib Labour Club, Exeter * Supporting: Mercenary Skank
Mission Impossible / Just A Little Bit (Nowhere Fast) / ''All Stripped Down'' / Tradjic Roundabout / Heart On The Staves
Caroline Reed booked this show. All Stripped Down could be another name for 1984 song All Stitched Up.
Andrew Tunnicliffe, guitarist of Mercenary Skank was quite praising: "They were a bit like The Clash. They went on stage and made a racket. I particularly liked them."
1998 - Record Collector, December 1997 - Hotel, Park Lane, John Reed Interview/article:
RC: Any other early gigs?
IB: We played the Embassy Club in London with Chiefs Of Relief – the launch party for Dennis Morris’s Sex Pistols book.
The Ad Lib Club. Exeter University. Then we didn’t play until the middle of ’85 when we went to Sweden...
22 November 1984 - Ad Lib 'Adlib' Club, Kensington, London Supporting: Mercenary Skank
Mission Impossible / Just A Little Bit (Nowhere Fast) / ''All Stripped Down'' / Tradjic Roundabout / Heart On The Staves
The photo of the band on the insert of the Garage Flower sleeve (see February 1996) was taken at this show, note the matching outfits. There is no actual credit for the photo mentioned in the sleeve, nor is there any production credits for the album either. Caroline Reed booked this show.
From 05 January 1985 - Sounds Magazine, Robin Gibson wrote:
''The Stone Roses are a little like Skank before they came good: crashing guitars and misplaced energy, and (very unfortunately) a drummer who wants to be a Keith Moon in a band who don't need one. Any good songs were lost in a one-paced, blustering set, and hindered by a singer who possesses the power but not the range of the feeling. The Stone Roses are clumsy and Clash-influenced: slicked back hair and (admittedly) some obvious emotion with nowhere to go. To do this sort of rock 'n' roll - as Mercenary Skank have learned - you need to be deft and sparing, not loudmouthed and careless. But be fair! It was only their third gig. But be honest, too. It didn't make me want to see their fourth. Robin Gibson.''
16 November 1984 - Mani's 22nd birthday
24 November 1984 - John Squire's 22nd birthday
14 December 1984 Friday
'Ad-Lib - Christmas Punk Extravaganza',
The Kensington, Russel Gardens, W14 * Doors Open: 19:30-23:00 * Supporting: Mercenary Skank * Ticket Price: £1.50
December 1984
Garry Johnson interviews the band for Sounds Magazine in Piccadilly Train Station, Manchester
(see 15 January 1985)
And that, my friends, is 1984 Manc-style — where a few lads from the north end of Manchester set off to change music forever, with a spliff, a van, and more attitude than a tram full of footie fans.
A band is born, a legend in the making, and all thanks to a mixture of luck, talent, and the fact that in Manchester, if you stick around long enough, weird always turns into magic.
Fun fact: Without Geno Washington puffing smoke at a copper and telling Ian he was a star, we might never have had The Stone Roses. Ian could have stayed a teetotal poet drifting around Hulme instead.