1985 was a strange year, stranger still when viewed through the rear-view mirror of Manchester’s most swagger-soaked band, The Stone Roses. 

While the rest of the world was busy adjusting shoulder pads to structurally unsafe widths and wondering whether computers would ever be more than beige boxes of mild disappointment, a handful of lads in Manchester were quietly plotting to repaint British music in Technicolor.

The Roses were still in their early formation, more chrysalis than butterfly but the attitude was already fully assembled. In 1985 they weren’t yet the band who’d one day claim to be the resurrection, but you could sense they were at least thinking about it—probably while leaning against a damp rehearsal-room wall, complaining about the sound system, the government, or both.

If you squint, you can see the future taking shape: the baggy revolution, the art-school swagger, the guitar lines that would one day swirl like paint in a Jackson Pollock puddle. But in ’85, it was all embryonic promise—like someone had handed the decade a matchstick and whispered, “Go on… light this.”

And the decade did. Eventually.

Because even in 1985, before the fame, before Spike Island, before every indie kid in Britain tried and failed to pull off Ian Brown’s stare, The Stone Roses already felt like a band that history was patiently waiting for.

1985
Ian Brown - Vocals
John Squire - Lead Guitar
Andy Couzens - Rhythm Guitar, Backing Vocals
Alan 'Reni' Wren - Drums, Backing Vocals
Pete Garner - Bass Guitar

04 January 1985 - Fulham Greyhound, London * Support: Last Party

Mission Impossible / Nowhere Fast / ''All Stripped Down'' / Tradjic Roundabout / Heart On The Staves / Getting Plenty.

Technically the band's first show as headliners. Mercenary Skank pulled out. 

All Stripped Down could be another name for 1984 song All Stitched Up.

January 1985 - Spirit Studio Session, Basement, Tariff Street, Manchester

The Misery Dictionary (So Young) / Tragic Roundabout / Mission Impossible / Nowhere Fast (Just A Little Bit)

Some confusion with the date, August 1984 — hardly unusual in the Roses’ early timeline, where half the memories seem to have been stored on a tape that’s since been eaten by the car stereo. Around this time, the band recorded a demo produced by Tim Oliver, who was then teaching at John Breakell’s School of Sound Recording (SSR).

Tim would later go on to become a producer, engineer, songwriter, arranger and all-round studio Swiss Army knife, working with everyone from Sinéad O’Connor to Robert Plant — not bad for someone who once had to teach bands which end of a jack lead was which. He also taught David Wood, who’d later have a hand in the Garage Flower sessions, proving that SSR was quietly becoming the Roses’ unofficial feeder school.

The band met future tour manager Steve Adge in Spirit Studios; he’d just left the band Third Law and was knocking about looking for his next adventure. Peter even bought a bass amp off him, the sort of early transaction that in hindsight looks like fate but at the time probably just felt like a dodgy deal in a rehearsal room corridor.

From Simon Spence War & Peace Unedited Peter Garner Interview: 

Nowhere Fast…? Have you heard that first demo? That’s on it, Mission Impossible, So Young and Tragic Roundabout… they were the ones that stayed in the set for a bit. You recorded at Spirit studios … We did the demo… I don’t know how it happened. We had no money so I don’t know how we paid for it. We got on with John Breakell, we did a few things there, so it wouldn’t surprise me if we said yeah, we’ll tidy up if we can have a bit of recording time...Nothing to do with the TV shows… just a play on words. If you’re going to sing about something being tragic, then Tragic Roundabout sounds pretty good… Mission Impossible was about trying to attain something that wasn’t possible, so the title just sounded good...Respect, was another title for Nowhere Fast… Si had left us and joined The Smiths and we realised The Smiths had a song called Nowhere Fast, so we went no way, so we changed the title… we didn’t know The Smiths had song called that when we wrote it… but I don’t remember that demo. I remember it we did the first demo and then the next time we did any proper recording was with Martin …That’s where we met Steve Adge, I think he’d just left the band he was in - Third Law. When we there, 84, early 85; I don’t remember there being any bands of any note in there.

Bootleg - The First Coming - Misery Dictionary (So Young) / Mission Impossible / Nowhere Fast (Just A Little Bit)

1985 - The Stone Roses stay with journalist Garry Johnson at his home in Hackney, London

From February 2016 - Q Magazine: 

After interviewing them in Manchester for their first press feature, Johnson offered the fledgling Roses regular London accommodation at his Hackney home where Brown would sift through his Trojan reggae collection, dancing to Tighten Up LPs in the lounge.

Garry Johnson said: “He was constantly eating oranges. All the time. Ian never drank, but he smoked a lot of spliffs and he liked speed in them days too. It just used to make him funnier, even more quick witted. Me and Ian used to shoot off on our own and end up speeding and drinking milkshakes at the all-night McDonald’s in Charing Cross, rabbiting for hours about music and how to get them a deal.”

1985 - Garry Johnson took the band to a party for Max Bygraves, Kettner’s, Soho, London

According to February 2016 - Q Magazine.

1985 - Gary Glitter launch at the Hippodrome. Garry Johnson took the band to the event.

From February 2016 - Q Magazine: 

“None of us knew about Gary Glitter back then," Johnson Keenly stresses. “I also used to mention the Roses as much as I could in my Sounds gossip column. At another event they met Angie Bowie, so I ran a story that there was a new romance on the cards with her and Ian. Stuff like that. Ian didn’t mind, but I know John didn’t like that sort of stuff.”

15 January 1985 - The Stone Roses are Interviewed by and feature in Sounds Magazine
Garry Johnson reviews the band and introduces them to Bruce Foxton of The Jam. Apparently Bruce Foxton was tipped to produce the band’s debut album, before Martin Hannett. Garry was a fan of the band after Ian sent him a demo tape and invited him to several shows in London.

From Simon Spence War & Peace Unedited Peter Garner Interview: 

Then Garry Johnson pops up? We used to buy Sounds and it was Ian again, because he was into the Upstarts and Rejects, so Garry Johnson was like the voice of Oi before Bushell.
Basically, Ian sent Garry a demo tape, he knew what journalists did what at the paper, so he sent him the tape, Garry liked it, rang Ian up and that’s how we got the first press in Sounds.

He came up with a photographer. It was our first interview in the press. I’d bought Sounds every week from being a kid... and our name was on the front of it and there was a picture... it was a massive thing. So, pleased. We met him at Piccadilly station, we went and did some shots, he interviewed us, then we kept in touch. When we went down to London, we’d meet up with him and he blagged us into a few parties.

And Bruce Foxton offered to produce the Roses? Well, we met Bruce Foxton… we’d been big Jam fans but it was mainly me and Ian. John was never really having it. So although we all liked the same music, there were certain bands, I bonded with Ian over this band, John with this band…we never all liked exactly the same thing…and for whatever reason John just wasn’t having the Jam.

Me and Ian absolutely loved it. We’re in London and Garry takes us to this Bruce Foxton gig or something, and we get to meet Bruce Foxton. And some photographer’s going to take a photo of us with Bruce Foxton and John’s refusing. He was like, no I don’t want to do that… so there wasn’t a photo of us with Bruce Foxton.

I’d met the Jam when I was 14… I used to wag school a lot and hang around town and I met Rick Butler on Oxford Road when they were playing Salford Uni. I saw him and approached him and he was on his way to the pictures, I was with my mate, and I asked if we could go with him. He said okay come if you want… I said I haven’t got any money… so he paid for us into the pictures … we watched Every Bit But Loose… he was totally cool, he bought us a box of Maltesers, sounds sinister… we were in school uniform… but it wasn’t. We came out, went to the pub, he bought us a couple of drinks, he was great… and the next day the Jam were playing at Salford Uni. He put us on the guest list… we arranged to meet him at the Piccadilly hotel the next day and met Bruce Foxton and Paul Weller. Rick needed drum skins and didn’t know where to get them so me and my mate got in the tour bus and showed them where to buy them from … and it was the day of the Woolworths fire in Manchester, Piccadilly. 30-odd people died… horrific… people were trapped… it was on that day… I was in the Jam’s mini-bus with my school uniform watching Woolworths burn. So, I loved the Jam and had a history; so, it was like ‘hi Bruce remember me…’ but John was like no I don’t want to have my photo taken with Bruce Foxton.

Show business party? Pete beats up Limahl… 

Yeah. Pete doesn’t beat up Limahl. Garry took us to this party, we’re kids, everyone there is a celebrity, Bananarama, Kajagoogoo, Captain Sensible was there, I was chuffed to meet him. It’s all pop stars… apart from us, no-one knows who the fuck we are, Garry Johnson has just blagged us in… it was free drinks… it was one of them, pigs head with fruit in it… I’d never seen anything like it… free champagne… yes please… I got pretty pissed and all it was I went to the toilet, kicked the bog door open and as I went in Limahl was coming out. I didn’t beat him up, I didn’t even hit, didn’t do anything, bumped into him… and then seeing it was Limahl, I thought it was quite amusing… so I mentioned it to Garry Johnson, oh I bumped into Limahl in the bogs… the next thing I know there’s a story in Sounds about how the bass player from the Roses has beaten up Limahl… you know how it works… it was bullshit…

Garry went to bat then… Oh yeah, and for an unknown band he got us quite a bit of press. At the end of 84 it was bands to watch in 85 and he got us in that… he tipped us as being a big thing for 85 and we were a tiny band who’d done one demo tape and six gigs… he was a massive champion of the cause… and a lot of that was he just liked the band really… he liked us…

From February 2016 - Q Magazine:
“You could never pigeonhole Ian,” says Garry Johnson, former Sounds journalist, punk poet and early Roses champion.

“He was neither a punk nor a mod. When I first met him his clothes looked mod but his hair was gelled back like Dave Vanian from The Damned. It was a funny combination of all sorts.”

The Stone Roses who met Johnson off his train at Manchester’s Piccadilly Station in 1984 were still a work—in— progress moulded from the ashes of The Patrol, disbanded three years earlier.

“Ian was easily the most charismatic one in the band," remembers Johnson. “He was arrogant and confident, but in a nice way. He acted like a star, even though he didn’t have a pot to piss in at the time."

January 1985 - The Marquee Club, London * Supporting: Mercenary Skank. Mission Impossible / Nowhere Fast / ''All Stripped Down'' / Tradjic Roundabout / Heart On The Staves / Getting Plenty

All Stripped Down was just another name for the 1984 song All Stitched Up, and this was probably the last time it got played live. Ian, ever the innovator, decided to shove his microphone straight into a stage monitor mid-set — causing feedback loud enough to wake the dead and ensuring everyone remembered the song… even if they hadn’t wanted to.

From 02 February 1985 - Sounds Magazine, Garry Johnson Reviews the band again.

IN THE blue corner, Mercenary Skank -visually very Lords Of The New Church, musically they might have been spawned from the same sewer. In the red corner, the hotly tipped musical tearaways the Stone Roses.

And if you think this reads like a boxing match then you've got the right idea, cos after the Roses' recent Sounds feature where they claimed to have "blown the Skanks off stage", the office got swamped with letters of calls from the Mercenary ones nixing the idea. And so I was dispatched with the brief to referee their next debacle. And my verdict, my fellow citizens, is that Stone Roses take it on points.

With punky energy firing their inventive rockers, the Stone Roses were even more impressive tonight than on the previous time I caught their act, not least because of the handsome harmony vocals they've added to their fiery brew, giving it an altogether poppier feel. Strong original songs like 'Mersey Dictionary' and 'Tragic Roundabout' swung my decision firmly in their favour.

The Mercenary Skanks on the other hand peaked with a powerful, anthemic version of The Who's 'Teenage Wasteland'. The trouble was that none of their own songs even got within spitting distance.

I wouldn't have said they were bad, they just gave the impression of going through the motions. A team without star players and lacking any hint of originality, they sounded like a cross between the Lords, the Alarm and old Lords support bands. They were just jaded, spirited but jaded, and I definitely got the impression that it wouldn't be long before they're supporting the Roses.

If they're playing for the love of rock 'n' roll that's fine, but if the Skanks wanna be stars I think they've already missed the boat.

Finally, to continue the sporting metaphors, man of the match was definitely Roses' drummer Reni - the Keith Moon of the 80s, you mark my words.

08 February 1985 - 'The Best of Manchester Show'

Dingwalls, Camden, London.

Bands: Glee Company, Communal Drop, Fictitious Names, Laugh and The Stone Roses.

This showcase of Manchester bands (‘The Best of Manchester Show’) was organised by DJ Tony Michaelides aka Tony The Greek. Tony invited the band to play and he would also give them there first, and only, Live Radio Session (see 24 March 1985). Tony said: "Ian Brown was fantastic. He didn't seem to care that the audience was flimsy. He just wanted to show off... walking right up to people and singing in their faces."

Compere on the night was, Piccadilly FM DJ, Mark Radcliffe. Clint Boon, of T'Mill & Inspiral Carpets, was at the show.

After the Dingwalls show, Mark Radcliffe said: “Ian Brown was fantastic. He didn't seem to care that the audience was flimsy. He just wanted to show off...walking right up to people and singing in their faces.".

From August 1985 - Acrylic Daze Fanzine, Issue 3 Paula Greenwood Interview: 

"I think I prefer playing in London" chips in Ian. "In Sweden they like you just because you're there. In London the crowds are really cool and stand back. I prefer an audience who stand there staring with blank faces, totally shocked because we just go on stage and go berserk, even if there's hardly anyone there. It just winds me up, so I think we do a better show when people are more antagonistic to you than if they love you."

From Simon Spence War & Peace Unedited Peter Garner Interview: Dingwalls, Feb 85.

An interesting one - that was a few bands from Manchester travelling down to play… that’s how I think we met Clint Boon. The band he was involved in then played… Ian’s not doing Iggy Pop but he’s pretty confrontational… his thing at the time was he always insisted on a really long mic lead so he could go out in the audience… he’s not aggressive but he’s got balls of steel… that’s why you want him as your singer… he’d go out into the crowd and pick someone’s drink up in front of them and say cheers, not in a threatening way but in that Ian way and he can get away with it… Iggy was more attack the audience, it wasn’t like that… it was just bravado, balls of steel, nobody could ignore you if the singers gets off the stage and walks up to you singing, giving you full eye contact, takes your drink and drinks it and then puts it down… you ain’t going to forget that… our singer had balls of steel..

February 1985 - Howard Jones take over as the band’s manager.
Caroline Reed was struggling to get the band another show. The mixed reviews did not help.

Howard "Ginger" Jones was the manager at Factory Records' Hacienda Club in Manchester. Howard gave Martin Hannett a copy of the bands demo tape. Martin Hannett was a former Factory Records director, he would later produce the band’s debut single and record the 'Garage Flower' album, an album which would remain unreleased until 1996. Tim Chambers was involved with the Thin Line project and was also ex-Factory Video productions and IKON staff.

Howard Jones, Martin Hannett and Tim Chambers co-founded Thin Line Records, the independent label who would record, fund and release the band’s debut single. Howard and Martin both left Factory to form their own label as they no longer agreed with other Factory founders’ decisions. Martin was a partner in the record company and Tony Wilson was the manager. In 1982 Tony made the final decision to build The Hacienda nightclub, despite Martin's plea to build a recording studio first. Martin left when he found out how much had been spent on building the club and eventually took Factory to court to obtain his share of his investment in the company.

From Simon Spence War & Peace Unedited Peter Garner Interview: 

Howard Jones… I remember disliking him because his comment about the band was that bassist has got to get his hair cut… I took umbrage…who the fuck are you man, telling me how to have my hair… Howard was in Chorlton, he was living on Zetland Rd near to where they were living. it was the days where people used to move quite regularly, you might be in a flat for three months… Ian’s lived in a lot of flats, him and Mitch probably did share with John.

From Blood On The Turntable BBC TV Documentary, 

Andy Couzens said: You could never tell where his intentions were, y'know, then when you realise he's got 28% of the record sales and then there's another 20% from thinline, that started to feel a little dirty.

From Simon Spence War & Peace Unedited Peter Garner Interview: 

I think what happened was we started rehearsing at the Lock-Up, Howard brings Martin down the Lock-up, so we’re like of Martin who produced Slaughter & The Dogs rather than oh it’s the Joy Division guy… so me and Ian are asking him what are slaughter like, we’d heard all these great stories… he was a bit taken aback because everyone wanted to talk to him about Joy division apart from us… so he came down, listened to us. He was involved with Thin Line with Howard, maybe as the in-house producer as he had been with Factory… Martin had fallen out with Factory, Tony Wilson had fallen out with Howard, the reason Wilson hated us for a long time was because all these people he’d fallen out with tended to look like they were working with us… it wasn’t deliberate.
Martin likes us and then Howard said we can put a single out and Martin can produce it… there was no outlay… but they’d sort it, Martin had credit at Strawberry… they’d put it out and nay money, Martin could pay the studio bill off with that.

20 February 1985 - Ian Brown's 22nd birthday

March 1985 - Yellow Two, Strawberry Studios, Stockport
So Young / Tell Me

Strawberry Studios started life in 1967 as a tiny 20-foot square room above a record shop, known back then as Inner-City Studios — hardly the sort of space you’d expect to produce hits that would echo around the world.

Droylsden-born Mindbenders guitarist and songwriter Eric Stewart, along with his former roadie Peter Tattersall, took over the place and rebranded it Strawberry Recording Studios — a nod to The Beatles’ Strawberry Fields Forever, because why not aim for a bit of immortal fruit-themed pop prestige?

A move to a bigger site on nearby Waterloo Road, plus backing from 10cc’s Graham Gouldman and music agent Kennedy Street Enterprises, transformed it into the studio of the North, the home of 10cc, and a magnet for everyone from Paul McCartney to local punk legends like The Buzzcocks and Joy Division. If walls could talk, they’d probably complain about all the feedback from Joy Division rehearsals.

During the early sessions, Martin was joined by assistant Steve Hopkins, though he left in March 1985. Howard Jones also popped in, presumably to check that no one was stealing the best synth patches. The single tracks were likely recorded that March, with the final mixes wrapped up by May — even if the public had to wait until 19 August 1985 to get their ears on them. The 12-inch sleeve dutifully notes the sessions as “March to May 1985,” making it sound official and slightly heroic, given the chaos that probably went on behind the glass.

For more on the unreleased mixes, see 1985 – Unreleased So Young/Tell Me Mixes, where the archives get as fruity as the studio name itself.

From August 1985 - Acrylic Daze Fanzine, Issue 3 Paula Greenwood Interview: Who is the main songwriter of the band and what are the lyrics about? "I write all the lyrics" says Ian. "Mainly the lyrics are about personal experiences, about my friends or about how I feel. The single 'So Young' is about when I lived in Hulme, everyone who lived there seemed to think it was great to stay in bed until tea time. It's just a waste of life. I'm saying you've got to get out of bed today. They could be doing something more worthwhile with their time."

''What happened to Misery Dictionary? "We changed the title from Misery Dictionary to So Young because we didn't want people to think we were another Manchester band with another doom and gloom title, like The Smiths or Joy Division.", explains John. "The song is anti-miserable, telling people, there's no need to be sad even if they're on the dole." "So Young is a better description of the song" says Pete. "Being called Misery Dictionary sounds pessimistic and the song isn't. All the songs are totally optimistic." "...If I could write a song as good as 'Anarchy' I would be happy..."

From John Robb’s The North Will Rise Again Book: 

Ian Brown said: ''We had the Clash last album (‘Cut The Crap’ was the Clash’s patchy swansong- the songs sound great on the live bootlegs from the time though) and we thought- look how crap they are we can do it! We saw the death of the Clash and they were the number one band for us.

From Simon Spence War & Peace Unedited Peter Garner Interview: 

Misery Dictionary which was re-titled So Young.. was because The Smiths. I knew Johnny and Andy … we’d watched them go from being a kid’s band rehearsing to being on TOTPs to being a big and important band, so once you’ve seen your mates on telly you’re obviously like fuck we can do this. I really liked Johnny but I didn’t like the vocal or warm to Morrissey and that whole misery bedsit thing associated with Morrissey, that song was really an reaction against that. We were all young and enjoying ourselves, and our mates were in a band who were known for misery, shyness and depression… which didn’t seem right to us, we were all happy to be in a band and up for it… that’s how I saw it. John probably wrote most of it.

So Young at Yellow II...Martin could get credit. That’s how we end up, this tiny band recording in 10CC’s studio essentially…Martin had a huge reputation. He was cool and really helpful to me. I was still learning my instrument, and he was really patient with me. I’d never heard myself playing in perfect clarity in a studio before… the demos were done with no recording stuff separate, we just counted 4 and did the song and maybe did an overdub and that was it… with Martin we recorded things separately and I freaked out a bit… when you hear yourself in isolation playing, you’ve never heard yourself before… fucking hell you can hear every single tiny mistake... he was patient and supportive, he was great man.

1985 - Yellow Two, Strawberry Studios, Stockport
Tell Me / This Is The One (Take 1)

The bootleg The Ultimate Rarities notes the, This Is The One, recording date as 'Strawberry Studios, Stockport 1985, 3am - This Is The One - 1st ever take'.

The story goes that Martin Hannett locked the band in the studio and wouldn't let them out until they had finished a new song, the finally recorded a take at 3am and were let free.

From 27 September 2013 - Andy Couzens interview.

''So Young and Tell Me were recorded at an earlier session and, I still think, sound exciting if not a little naive - representative of the times !!!''

From Simon Spence War & Peace Unedited Peter Garner Interview

Tell Me? Absolutely self-explanatory. It’s Rage Against the Machine before you were allowed to swear, I still like Tell Me it’s a fantastic song.

15 March 1985 - Kevin Cummins Photo Shoot at Fletcher Moss Gardens, Manchester.
The band's debut photo session. The date featured in The Third Coming exhibithion booklet. The image was used for media purposes and eventually the cover of the IAWS Will Odell bootleg 'Ultimate Rarities'.

24 March 1985 - Piccadilly Radio Session, Piccadilly Studios, Manchester
Live: I Wanna Be Adored / Heart On The Staves / Tell Me

Tony Michaelides, aka Tony The Greek, arranged the session — proving that even in Manchester, a bit of Mediterranean flair could make the phones ring. Mark Radcliffe got the band set up in the studio, ready for what would be their first and only live broadcast across Manchester and the North West. Steve Adge was there too, presumably keeping an eye on things and making sure no one tripped over a mic cable or tried to reinvent the sound of the North live on air. It was the kind of session that sounded big at the time — mainly because it actually went out live and no one could rewind it if it all went spectacularly wrong.

The band performed live but had to replay the songs as the studio engineer did not record the session. They wanted some live takes so they could repeat the session. It is unconfirmed if the source available on various bootlegs are from the live broadcast or the repeated live takes.

This session has appeared on a new 2025 Bootleg Vinyl that also includes Blackpool 89

From Melody Maker Magazine, 1987: ''

'Our first single, 'Sally Cinnamon' is about to be released and, after that, we'll start talking to all the majors who've been sniffing around.'' Talking to the majors? What of Mandestas' grand ''indie-rock'' tradition? The Smiths, The Fall, New Order... ''Oh, sod that'' says Ian. ''They're all a generation older than us and those days have gone anyway. If you want to talk about tradition, did you know we're the best band since The Hollies to broadcast a live performance from a certain local radio station?'' 

From February 1998 - Uncut magazine Ian Brown interview: Everyone misinterpreted ‘I Wanna Be Adored’. It never meant I wanted to be adored. It was a song about sin. I never personally gave a fuck about being adored. The star was the audience. I wanted, and I still want, to finish the days where people are looking up at Bono or whoever. It’s a reaction against that pampering, limousine, coked-up thing. We wanted to kick over those icons.”

From Simon Spence War & Peace Unedited Peter Garner Interview: 

Adored played… do you instantly think we’ve got a good one here? No. It just felt like the mellow one. Not the ballad one, it’s not a ballad. I discussed it with Ian, because he said to me, I need to write some more lyrics… there’s only four lines in it… I was like no no, no, that’s why it’s so good, less is more… and sort of convincing him not to add any more lyrics to him. It was unusual in the set because it was mellow… most of our songs were fast and quite angsty and that had quite a groove to it and minimal lyrics…

Live session on Piccadilly…? It was going out live… so we’re in this room at Piccadilly radio and doing this session and it’s going out live… I was terrified because if we fuck up there’s no doing it again…. Steve Adge could probably tell by my face that I was thinking if we fuck up here, we’re dead… half way through and it was going well, Steve threw a chair at us... just to add to the tension… we did it and it all went well and then the engineer said, I didn’t press the record button and they needed it on tape so they could repeat it… so we had to do the songs again…

Prior to recording the second single The Stone Roses play their first local dates

'Friday March 29th, Clouds, Preston, which will be videoed by Factory IKON F.C.L.'.' 'Saturday April 6th, Oddys, Oldham' 

'Thursday April 11th, Manchester, The Gallery, To be recorded live for Piccadilly Radio' 'Further info in: M.M./N.M.E./SOUNDS/CITY LIFE/ In March 1985'

1998 - Record Collector, December 1997 - Hotel, Park Lane, John Reed Interview.

RC: Looking back, are you happy with your first single, "So Young"? 

IB: It’s a good noise, but we played the original version in the car. We went for a drive and Reni’s nose exploded, blood everywhere – there was so much treble on the record, it hurt! We should have gone with that version but we said, no, it’s killer. It was pre-Mary Chain and full of feedback. It was beautiful. His nose just went with the frequency!
RC: You could have had a warning on it! 

IB: That’s what we should have done! But we went with the safer mix. It’s alright. It just sounds like what it is – four lads trying to get out of Manchester...

From February 1998 - Uncut magazine Ian Brown interview: 

We loved Slaughter and the Dogs. In 1985, we worked with Martin Hannett (releasing an ignored single, “So Young”, on Thin Line) because he’d done ‘Cranked Up Really High’, not cos of Joy Division and all that Manchester heritage. But Hannett was in a bad way. We caught him snorting coke off the ‘There’s no-one quite like Grandma’ gold disc! He was a junkie; lovely man, but nothing else mattered.”

29 March 1985 Friday - Clouds, Preston, Lancashire
Mission Impossible / Nowhere Fast (Just A Little Bit) / I Wanna Be Adored / Tell Me / Trust A Fox / So Young / Love Missile F1-11 (Sigue Sigue Sputnik cover)

Andy Couzens had technical issues on stage with his equipment. Only four songs into the set, the show ended in a riot. Ian pleaded with the crowd to stop fighting. Tony Wilson (Factory Records/Hacienda owner) was in the audience, he left before the riot even started. Martin Hannett was supposed to be at the show, unconfirmed if he made it on time. Steve Adge, Howard Jones and Chris Goodwin were in the audience too. According to a Thin Line Records Radio Promo Sheet this gig was set to be recorded for a future video release 'which will be videoed by Factory IKON F.C.L.'. It is unconfirmed if Tim Chambers set up a camera to record the show.

From 20 April 1985 - Melody Maker Magazine, journalist Ro Newton said.

“Imagine the sound of fingernails scraping down a blackboard, amplified to an intolerable degree. The Stone Roses are tuning up. An angst-ridden vocal penetrates the plethora of deranged drumming and screaming feedback. The effect is impelling - for the handful of diehard masochists pulverising each other at the front of the stage. The rest are unimpressed. “The Stone Roses, sadly, are like a whole host of other bands circa '76 - thrashing through a monotonous set, bereft of subtlety or sensitivity. They serve merely as a catalyst for aggression; channelling energy and fervent emotion into their songs for all the wrong reasons. What's more, this band appears to believe strongly in what they're doing, which is even more disconcerting. “The singer reminds me of a harsher and less charismatic Pete Shelley, as he wails incoherently and hurtles around the stage. Potentially good songs such as "So Young" and "Nowhere Fast" were drowned in a mangled mess of dissonance. How they earned the label of Mancunian Deviant Merseybeat I'll never know, especially when they so blatantly lack melody and originality. A pitiful display.”

Howard Jones (The Stone Roses manager) said: “We were getting a really bad reputation and the problem was that it was deserved. I knew that we would have trouble playing anywhere in Britain, after that."

From Simon Spence War & Peace Unedited Peter Garner Interview: Preston Clouds? Nightmare… it was Preston and we hadn’t played in Manchester… so anyone who was on the scene who knew us travelled to Preston to see us because we’d never done a gig in town…and then there was a big contingent of kids who went to this venue in Preston every week… so as soon as we started playing it was obviously there was a Manchester section and a Preston section and it was just waiting for a spark...

Mani was there?, Adge had a crew. There was a load of people from Manchester and I’m sure Steve was involved in that. 

I saw Mani at the Warehouse gig but not at Clouds...

Ro Newton/NME? Boy, she didn’t like it. She came down and then there was a proper fight at the gig. It all kicked off. She interviewed us afterwards and she was horrified by the violence, I was as well. None of us are fighting people. We weren’t scare of it but it was horrible basically. She interviewed us afterwards and she took this line where she was saying that was totally horrible, surely you can’t condone that in anyway. She thought in some way we’d encouraged it, which we hadn’t done. We got up and started playing and it all kicked off. It felt like she was attacking us for instigating it when we hadn’t done. Ian wasn’t condoning it but he wasn’t agreeing with her it was outrageous and horrible, he was playing devil’s advocate a bit and she took umbrage to it… I think she hated us. She thought we were celebrating that. Whereas if you were going out in Manchester at the time, shit like that happened all the time. I thought afterwards we’ve upset the wrong person there; she got a job on the Whistle Test and did really well... she ain’t going to help us obviously… And then Howard used the first paragraph of the review? That’s Howard being McLaren-esque, using it as a positive attention-grabbing thing rather than a slag off…

Sputnik… Love Missile F1-11? What we used to do when we first started playing the early gigs was instead of just getting up and going 1234 and just start playing the tunes, and we sort of robbed it from the Pistols this... when the Pistols were on So it Goes… they started playing off a load of racket before they did the song… and they used to do it at the gigs, they’d just come on and play a load of racket just to get everyone’s attention… and then they’d play the first song… and we always thought that was a brilliant idea.. so we sort of robbed it and we’d go on and play a discordant mess until everybody in the room was looking at us rather than sat in the bar chatting… and when we got everyone’s attention then we’d go into the first tune… it was just a good way of getting people’s attention… Playing Love Missile was just a total piss-take... we loved Gen X and it was Tony James’ new band and it was stupid really… they had this big hype around them and they’d signed to EMI for £4m which we didn’t believe… but I really liked that single… and it became a sort of joke… we sort of likes it because it was a bit naff… the riff’s just Chuck Berry/Eddie Cochrane… we never went on with the intention of doing that, that never happened… we were doing the gig at Preston, it was a disaster cos it all kicked off, so I think John started playing the riff and we joined in laughing… just to try and make light of the situation…

From January 1990 - The Face Magazine, Issue 16

Interview was conducted backstage 23 November 1989 - Top Of The Pops...

The Stone Roses would like to take this opportunity to clear something up. At least their manager would. We're all in the bar now and Tony Wilson is busy pulling all the stops out in another of his overgenerous Mouth Almighty routines when he turns a bit patronising on the Stone Roses and accuses them, in front of this writer, of unprofessionalism at a certain gig due to excessive drug use. The easy camaradie freezes for an instant as the Roses manager reaches out his hands and places it softly but firmly over Wilson's mouth. Then he whispers something in his ear that causes Wilson to stiffen momentarily. Then he turns to me: "You should know the Stone Roses don't take drugs." What he's trying to say is that the Stone Roses don't take drugs in remotely the same way the Happy Mondays take drugs....

Chris Goodwin said: “I can remember one of the early Roses gigs when we went to Preston there was loads of us and the local Preston lads turned up. That was a sight to behold. It was like a Wild West brawl. But there wasn’t too much violence,”

From Lancashire Evening Post, 13 November 2015.

March 29 1985 - The Stone Roses northern debut took place in the unlikely setting of Preston’s Clouds nightclub (modern day Evoque) and proved a landmark date on the road to fame. After a successful local radio session had raised their profile in Manchester a sizeable crowd headed over and legend has it the gig was marked by a ‘riot’ among travelling fans, locals and bouncers. Preston musician Pete Brown was there, “I personally was unlucky enough to see The Stone Roses play a terrible gig at Clouds in Preston back in 1985, they were pretty goth back then and not very good.”

06 April 1985 Saturday - Oddys, Oldham
This date is from a Thin Line Records Radio Promo Sheet.

1985 - John Squire meets Helen at Cosgrove Hall / Quits his job when The Roses go to Sweden.

08 April 1985 Monday - The Stone Roses drive to Sweden

From Simon Spence War & Peace Unedited Peter Garner Interview: 

Sweden…The Chevy truck…it’s not like a transit van. It’s like a big Chevrolet fucking truck… it’s the sort of tour bus you’d have on your third album and we’re all on the dole... I’m on a YTS… We were all as skint as each other apart from Andy and his parents had a lot… so when he was 17 he owned an MG sports car, brand new, and then he got into, cos he was into rockabilly, he had a 1950s black Chevrolet car… ultra-rare… bought one… his parents bought it for him… and then we started gigging… we do those early gigs in a transit van, nightmare, no seats, sitting on the equipment…not pleasant, not glamorous… and then at some point before we go to Sweden.

Andy sells his 50s black Chevy and buys this Chevy tour bus style thing… I don’t know how much it cost… probably more than the house I lived in… he buys that and he’s got money to pay for the petrol… nobody had any money but Andy had access to money… we drove to Sweden in Andy’s unbelievable Chevy tour bus…There was both ends of it... big sports hall and tiny gigs… the story of how we ended up going to Sweden was Ian had gone hitching it around Europe on holiday… a few weeks break him and Michelle went off… he’d met this Swedish guy somewhere in Europe. Ian had done is usual thing of I’m in this band and we’re huge in Manchester, got a big local following and blagged this guy… and he was so impressed they kept in touch and they set up this tour for us with Toxin Toy… they were writing letters and we were going we haven’t got any money and this guy sent us the money to get over there on the ferry… we could have just spent it on beer… all based on this guy meeting Ian and he probably had a demo tape. We got our giros, got in Andy’s van and went. If this guy hadn’t turned up at the train station in Sweden, we’d have been fucked… he took us to this guys’ flat who moved out of his flat let us stay there, all seven of us, and then we had another guy in Toxin Toy bringing us food… it was insane…

First roadie Glen...He’s dead now, Glen Greenough. I think he died of liver failure; he was a big drinker… we weren’t… he was one of them guys that when he starts of the beers, he’s going to batter it… I don’t know where he came from, we met him and he ended up coming to Sweden as our roadie, with his giro… which he spent on the ferry in the casino, blew it all on roulette… before he’d got to Sweden, he said to Howard can you lend me some money… it wouldn’t surprise me if he was doing solvents but no-one called him Gluepot Glen.

10 April 1985 - Reni's 21st birthday

Swedish Tour

10 April 1985 Wednesday - Big Bang Club, Linkoping, Sweden.

Support Act(s): Toxin Toy.

Mission Impossible / Nowhere Fast / Tradjic Roundabout / I Wanna Be Adored / Getting Plenty / So Young / Fall / Heart On The Staves / Tell Me

Ian came on-stage telling the crowd ''You're all Swedish twats'' in Swedish. It is noted the band performed an encore for the crowd too. Support band information taken Thin Line Production (PR 14) Poster.

Taken from 'the early days' article by John Robb published 08 April 2011 on louderthanwar.com

 'When Ian Brown was travelling round Europe, he met a man on a train who promised a Swedish tour to the band. Brown blagged the stranger about his band and wasn’t really expecting a return phone call, but the call came in for seven gigs over a few weeks period. With nothing to lose and the thrill of a proper tour the band and then manager, Howard Jones jumped at the chance.' The first gig was in Linköping, a Swedish logging town, Ian’s mate from the train ride, Andreas Linkaard had not only booked the shows but had previewed the band in the local papers and reviewed the shows as well, it was all part of the service Swedish style. Ian Brown though wasn’t about to reciprocate this charity and remembering Johnny Lydon’s combative band/audience stance he opened the show with the rather confrontational ''you are all Swedish twats’ a phrase that he had managed to pick up in Swedish for maximum effect.'' The review of the gig describes a band buzzing with full confrontational powers. ‘Singer Ian runs around like he had rabies,’ it also points out that ‘he rolls around on the floor’ and liked the band’s music ''because it is violent and has a close collection to punk’ before describing the music as psychedelic punk''

11 April 1985 Thursday - The Gallery, Manchester
Cancelled due to the Swedish tour offer. This date is from a Thin Line Records Radio Promo Sheet and claimed 'The Gallery, To be recorded live for Piccadilly Radio'.

11 April 1985 Thursday - Olympia, Norrköping, Sweden Support Act(s): Toxin Toy.
Mission Impossible / Nowhere Fast / Tradjic Roundabout / I Wanna Be Adored / Getting Plenty / So Young
encore: Fall / Heart On The Staves encore 2: Tell Me

Taken from 'the early days' article by John Robb published 08 April 2011 on louderthanwar.com.

The next night in Norrkoping was equally good, it had been a few months since that debut gig and no they were touring and enjoying the hospitality of their hosts. The band had never encountered anything like this before, they had stumbled into their tour van with a handful of money scraped together from their giros, had turned up in Sweden penniless and made manager Jones sleep on the floor whilst they lived on breadcrumbs- powered by humour and on the road camaraderie they were also fired up by playing great gigs. 

“One place where we stayed, we took all the slats out of Howard’s bed and it collapsed when he went to bed in it. I guess it’s funny the first night but we did it every night.” laughs Couzens who also remembers Reni putting slabs of bacon in Jones bed.''

From Simon Spence War & Peace Unedited Peter Garner Interview

 ...one of them, there was curfew in the town and you weren’t allowed out if you were under 18 after 9 o’clock… so we had all these kids at the venue and we played the gig and then the police turned up and arrested everybody and we were hiding these kids backstage… it was nuts…

12 April 1985 Friday - Boras, Sweden Support Act(s): Toxin Toy 

April 1985 - Howard Jones falls out with the band.

Taken from 'the early days' article by John Robb published 08 April 2011 on louderthanwar.com: 

At one-point relations between the band and heir manager slumped to an all-time low point, with the manager being kicked out of the van in the freezing night of Sweden and left on the roadside. “It was about minus 20 outside,” laughs Couzens. ' There was a row as usual over someone sitting on the bench in the van. I opened the door and kicked him out and left him in the middle of nowhere ha! He had to walk for an hour and a half before he got back to where we were staying. We would be on the nick for food in all the shops that we went to, everyone was at it except for Pete, that’s what Pete was like in the band. Nice guy. He held it all together. He was the mediator, He always mediated in the rehearsal room arguments between the band'. The drummer of the local tour support band luckily was manager of a local supermarket and robbed food for them and they fought like dogs over the scraps, it was the real rock bottom, tough life the sort of backs to the wall situation that shapes up a band as Andy Couzens recalls. “It was our first big proper break. It was where we went serious. We made John give up his day job on the phone from Sweden, Ian was signing on and stopped but, on the road, it was horrible, we were so broke that we became like animals. We fought over food and we fought over money, we took it all out on Howard Jones- he became the band punch bag.''.

19 April 1985 - The Lilla Marquee, Västertorp, Stockholm, Sweden Bootleg noted date from the tour.

23 April 1985 - The Lilla Marquee, Västertorp, Stockholm, Sweden * Supporting: The Go-Betweens
Mission Impossible / Nowhere Fast (Just A Little Bit) / Tradjic Roundabout

As the band walked on stage Ian said: "Sit down back there, we're only doing three". ''Mission impossible, impossible to make a Swedish person laugh''. Reni shouted "Hallelujah!" at the end of the show. The band were not happy with the show.
Ian Brown was interviewed after the show, the recording can be heard on various bootlegs. The Interview includes Ian Brown claiming he wrote all of the lyrics to the band’s early songs.

The date is a mystery, The Go-Betweens discography notes the date as '25 April Stockholm', '24 April Orebro' & '26 April Lundt' The bootlegs say 19 April 1985.

25 April 1985 - Kollingsborg, Stadion, Stockholm, Sweden. 

Support Act(s): Toxin Toy

Mission Impossible / Nowhere Fast / Tradjic Roundabout / I Wanna Be Adored / Getting Plenty / So Young / Fall / Heart On The Staves / Tell Me. 

The Date was listed as 21 April 1985 on the Thin Line Production (PR 14) Poster.

From 2001 - I Am Without Shoes Exclusive Andy Couzens Interview: 

IAWS: What was the most bizarre gig the Roses ever played during your spell with them? Was it the gig at McOnagles, Dublin, in 1986? 

AC: Yeah, a mad night, but all the gigs were. The night in Sweden where Ian sucked the barrel of the gun some nutter pulled, or the night the police showed and arrested the whole audience just before we went on, or or or or or - you get the picture.

27 April 1985 - Ultra, Sweden. Support Act(s): Toxin Toy

29 April 1985 - Kulan Lidingö Stadion, Stockholm, Sweden
(Setlist unconfirmed) Mission Impossible / Nowhere Fast / Tradjic Roundabout / I Wanna Be Adored / Getting Plenty / So Young / Fall / Heart On The Staves / Tell Me

Taken from 'the early days' article by John Robb published 08 April 2011 on louderthanwar.com: 

''The last shows saw John Squire’s block lettering first used for the band logo on the poster. The band finally had a logo, the days of being felt tipped onto the end of someone else’s poster were over.''

30 April 1985 - Kulan Lidingö Stadion (Lidingo Stadium), Stockholm, Sweden.

Support Act(s): Toxin Toy

Mission Impossible / Nowhere Fast / Tradjic Roundabout / I Wanna Be Adored / Getting Plenty / So Young / Fall / Heart On The Staves / Tell Me

Ian decided to spice up Nowhere Fast for the occasion, changing the lyrics to: “Nowhere fast, you're going nowhere fast. Nowhere fast, you're all Swedish twats.” Charming. This was the final Swedish date of the tour, much to the band’s relief — nothing like finishing a foreign leg of a tour with a subtle cultural diplomacy lesson, courtesy of Ian.

From August 1985 - Acrylic Daze Fanzine, Issue 3 Paula Greenwood Interview.

''The group recently played some gigs in Sweden which, they say, went down very well. So, well they plan to go back soon. "The gigs in Sweden were really different to the ones we've done here", says Reni. "The audience seemed to be really hungry for the music. They've only just started going to see bands over the last few years, so it's all fresh and new to them. I loved the place, it's great to see so many people having a good time." "When the single's out we plan to go back, whether it does well or not." "I think I prefer playing in London" chips in Ian. "In Sweden they like you just because you're there. In London the crowds are really cool and stand back. I prefer an audience who stand there staring with blank faces, totally shocked because we just go on stage and go berserk, even if there's hardly anyone there. It just winds me up, so I think we do a better show when people are more antagonistic to you than if they love you."

From Simon Spence War & Peace Unedited Peter Garner Interview.

Toxin Toy saved our arses… we’d have been skint and deported after a week without them. They organised a proper tour bus, organised all the kids, fed us, convinced some guy to give up his flat to let us stay there… they were too nice for their own good really… there’s no way we would have done that for an unknown band from Sweden coming here… give up your flat and let them stay in it? Fucking no chance man. It’s totally different from doing a gig every few weeks; we became a proper band. And when we came back that’s when everyone jacked their jobs in. We realised we’d become a proper band sort of thing…

March 2000 - Jockey Slut Magazine includes a Ian Brown Q&A Session.

I know you've got the largest collection of Stone Roses bootlegs - why? James Lavelle. "When the Roses split up I thought, 'What am I going to do now?'. I thought, 'I'll collect the bootlegs'. The best one I've got is in Sweden in '85 when we were due to support this Swedish punk band and thought 'We're not going to support some crappy punk band'. They said, 'It's OK, you can headline. Go on at 11 o'clock.' So we came on at 11 and the hall was empty. The last bus was at 11, the last train was at 11. We played to two people and one of them was tidying the chairs up."

May 1985 - On the cover of City Life, Issue 31.

From Simon Spence War & Peace Unedited Peter Garner Interview: 

Things are going well and things are back-firing, the Ro Newton thing back-fired, the City Life thing back-fired… we’ve become this anti-Factory thing, so we’ve alienated the Tony Wilson crew… it was like that all the time.

10 May 1985 - International 1, 47 Anson Road, Manchester, M14 * Support Act(s): It's Immaterial * Ticket Price: £1.50 *
Mission Impossible / Just A Little Bit (Nowhere Fast) / Tradjic Roundabout / I Wanna Be Adored / Getting Plenty / So Young / Fall / Heart On The Staves / Trust A Fox / Tell Me / encore: I Wanna Be Adored / Getting Plenty

Dougie James was the original owner of The International, before Gareth Evans came along. The International's venue was previously known as the Oceans 11 Club. The venue is now a shop. During the Blood On The Turntable documentary it was known as 'Venus Foods'. 

Richard Ingram (Vancouver, Canada) said: ''The second time I saw them would have been the 10 May 1985 gig at Manchester International, but I drank so much that I had to leave before they came on. Ended up punching my hand through the door at my rented pad because I couldn't find my key. I later discovered that it had been in my pocket all along.'' 

Tom Jones's 'It's Not Unusual' was used as the intro tape.
Noel Gallagher was at this show too, he said: ''Ian had a harlequin shirt on and a walking stick and slicked back hair, like Dracula.''

Gareth Evans & Matthew Cummins co-owned and ran the International Club 1 & 2. Gareth expressed interest in the band with current manager Howard Jones at this show. Matthew Cummins was Gareth's business partner and brother-in-law too. Matthew co-managed the band and the International venues too.

From Blood On The Turntable BBC TV Documentary, Gareth Evans said: A lot of the so-called Manchester music scene, this probaby includes Tony Wilson, Howard Jones, they didn't know about my background. I mean, remember, I had Keith Moon in a Ford Zephyr driving around Manchester...

From 2001 - I Am Without Shoes Exclusive Andy Couzens Interview: IAWS: At the International in May 1985 is it true that Gareth Evans paid all the Chorlton Gladiators Scooter Club £5.00 each to cause a bit of a rumpus?
AC: I doubt it, Gareth wasn't managing us then. But there was always some trouble without help like that!

1985 - 'Garage Flower Sessions 1985' Garage Flower, Recording Sessions
I Wanna Be Adored / Here It Comes / This Is The One
Notes: Tape simply labelled 'Garage Flower Sessions 1985'. Includes both proposed, unreleased, Thin Line singles. 

I Wanna Be Adored was the second proposed single whilst This Is The One was the third for Thin Line. John created artwork for both initial releases but the tracks never saw release. Their debut So Young / Tell Me was delayed and the LP release was dropped.

From May 1990 - Sky Magazine, Jon Wilde article: 

Hannett recalls, “They didn’t seem to dislike the recordings so much at the time. The whole thing was cooled by their relationship with Howard I think. At that time they were just sorting their musical ideas out. That early stuff is very hard-nosed. Very rough. That’s how they were at the time.”

2013 - David Wood: In all I think Martin had recorded five tracks with The Stone Roses but by the time it came to the editing, he'd had got it down to three. These were the two tracks that made it on to the release called 'So young' and 'Tell me’ And the track that didn't was 'I Wanna Be Adored'....

According to Andy Couzens in 1991 - Rock CD Magazine 

"We did the 12" with Martin and about four weeks later he came flying over in his usual drugged state and just managed to babble out 'I've booked Strawberry Studios for six weeks, let's do some stuff. We did about 14 tracks mixed. 

Ian and I were going in the wrong directions...'"

24 May 1985 - The Gallery, Manchester
Secret Show, the band used the pseudo name ''The Bone Noses'' and The Stone Bozos.

From August 1985 - Acrylic Daze Fanzine, Issue 3 Paula Greenwood Interview: ''What's the idea of the secret gigs - why do them? "It means we have total control over everything", explains John. "We can play places where there's no bouncers, no law, no over-priced drinks and anyone can come along, under-18 and or over and have a good time." "We could have started off playing gigs at the Venue or the Gallery, but I can't see how that could be an advantage for the band", says Ian. "It would be a disadvantage to the band, because it's small-time and that's not how we think."

Ian and John attend The Jesus & Mary Chain - 25 June 1985 Tuesday - The Hacienda, Manchester * Support Act(s): Primal Scream, The Pastels, Meat Whiplash

From John Squire Interview 13 June 2007 - XFM Manchester Session Interview: The Mary Chain must have been formed around the same time as the Roses; 1984-ish?

 JS: I think they were pretty well established before we were known nationally. They were a big influence, they really opened my eyes, They were like a reconnection with the music I’d initially got into; I could hear the Beach Boys in those chord changes and melodies, I could hear the Shangri-Las and the Ronettes and for me it made melodies – pop melodies – relevant again. After listening to the Mary Chain I found I could start to write proper songs.

We were talking while that song was playing about a gig the Mary Chain did at the Hacienda. There were only about two hundred people there if my memory is right. And three hundred bouncers… JS: Yeah, it was just after that gig in London when the band had trashed or the crowd had trashed some venue in London.

Did the crowd trash the band!? 

JS: I don’t think I can remember the details! They were an influence on you at that time, just before the Roses broke. That Creation Records sound – the Mary Chain and early Primal Scream – a lot of that did feed into a lot of the bands that were around at that time. We had no pop sensibility in our music until I heard the Mary Chain; they really knocked me into shape.

04 July 1985 - The Underground, 21 Hight Street, Croydon, Surrey * Doors Open: 21:00-02:00 * Ticket Price: £3 * Supporting: Doctor And The Medics.
Yes, the same Dr & The Medics who sang 'Spirit In The Sky'. Resident DJ Pete Fox played between sets.

Peter Garner said: "I remember the girls in Dr And The Medics putting their wigs on in the dressing room, it was pretty funny... At the time we would play anywhere but not in a pub."

20 July 1985 Saturday - Manchester Flower Show 1, Warehouse 1, Fairfield Street, Manchester. Doors Open: 23:00, Stage Time: Between 01.30am - 03.00am (21 July 1985) Ticket Price: £2.00 * 'Reni Intro' / Heart On The Staves / Fall / So Young / I Wanna Be Adored / Here It Comes / Tradjic Roundabout / Open My Eyes (The Nazz cover) / Getting Plenty / Tell Me

Warehouse 1 was a room close to Piccadilly Train Station, Steve Adge hired and paid British Rail for the venue, claiming the venue was for filming purposes. The band apparently came on and performed at 03.00am but a review from Melody Maker said 01.30am. The warehouse party ended at 05.00am, mainly due to the lack of booze and there was no toilet at the venue.

Reni started the show with a drum solo, sometimes labelled as 'Reni Rumble' on bootlegs. Only known performance of The Nazz cover 'Open Your Eyes'. Mani was in the audience for the show and he can even be seen on the video footage too. The Smiths drummer Mike Joyce & Noel Gallagher were also at the show too.

The show was organised by Steve Adge & Mark of Blackmail Records. Steve Adge would later become the bands tour manager. Tickets were sold with instructions to phone Spirit Studios on the night to find out where the gig was. Tickets had pennies taped to the back.

From 23-30 December 1989 - Sounds Magazine Interview: 

He (John) also remembers their Warehouse days with affection.“It was for people who liked staying out all night after The Hacienda. I mean we wouldn’t go onstage till about four or five in the morning. It was all Manchester people.” That first gig on Fairfield Street found a place in Mancs folklore. Brown also remembers it as the night his Hulme flat was burgled but, like they say, out of chaos comes order and a dedicated Mancs following was secured.

1998 - Record Collector, December 1997 - Hotel, Park Lane, John Reed Interview. RC: You also organised all-night parties…. These were around ’86. A guy called Steve, who became our tour manager, organised them in the old railway arches in Fairfield Street in Manchester. We used to hire it off British Rail and tell them it was for a party – 3000 people. We had DJs as well. We advertised it as the Flower Show Part 1/Part2/Part3. Then we got our mates to hang outside night-clubs at tow in the morning with little flyers showing people where it was...

Ian Brown said: “It was Steve [Adge] who started the warehouse parties. He put the three warehouse shows on which started everything. He said, ‘I got the place in Fairfield Street behind Piccadilly train station, I was thinking of doing a party. It’s called, The Flower Show and I want a band to play. Are you up for it?'”

Catherine Walsh said: ''We had got our tickets from Steve Adge, a Rockabilly, "Daddy Adge", who was a regular at the Ritz on alternative night. I remember the ticket had a penny carefully sellotaped to the small bit of paper - "A penny back" the ticket said. We met outside an old warehouse on Fairfield St, Manchester. Inside was... well, a basic run of the mill warehouse. My first illegal warehouse party and my first Roses gig. It was so cold but the excitement made me forget, I stood near the one and only heater. I overheard someone say, "They will do really well, especially as the band's singer is so good looking, top front man!" We met up with my boyfriend Rob Hampson (Rob the Bob) mingling amongst the punks and rockabilly’s. We danced around a little, Manchester's cool were dancing to Joy Division, Smiths, Bunnymen, The Fall, Bow Wow Wow and so off we went jumping and shuffling about on the stone floor. About 3am a group of young, skinny boys set up their rig at the front of a room off from the main warehouse. There was no stage so we got as close as we liked. The young Ian and his band played their early tracks - there were not many, and we wanted more!''

1985 - Ian Brown moves to Withington
From John Robb’s The North Will Rise Again Book: Ian Brown said: I had two and half years in Hulme before I moved back to Withington in mid-85.

1985 - Ian Tilton Photo Session
Full band photo session. The band's first photo session and Ian's first encounter with the band. The early photo shows the bands style and taste in clothing at the time. Andy & Peter both feature in the photos too. Several images were printed and used for media purposes, including the bands first press photo. The same photo would be used on the IAWS I Am Without SHoes / stoneroses.net bootleg: The Ultimate Rarities.

Ian Tilton said: “We bonded on our first shoot together as none of us wanted to create something boring. We held a mutual appreciation of creating something conceptually different.”

10 August 1985 - Marquee, London

24 August 1985 - Marquee, London

Unconfirmed date. The band had been banned from the venue previously, they were banned after this show too. See January 1985 - The Marquee Club, London.

From Simon Spence War & Peace Unedited Peter Garner Interview: From early 85 at the Marquee… I remember Ian and there being a mic incident and us getting band. But we actually played there again [six months or so later] us getting banned again. We got banned twice, they didn’t realise the second time it was us again. How many bands can say they got banned from the Marquee. They didn’t treat us well, we got paid shit money, it always cost us more because we had to pay petrol down to London and back, we were all skint. We were basically paying money out of our own pockets, which we didn’t have, to go and play somewhere … so when you get treated like shit and it’s costing you money you tend not to be that happy about it. As far as the Marquee was concerned it was you should be paying to play at this prestigious club rather than encouraging bands who were trying to create anything.

15 August 1985 Thursday - The Hacienda, Manchester *Support Act(s): Playne Jayne.  Fall / Heart On The Staves / So Young / I Wanna Be Adored / Here It Comes / All I Want / Mission Impossible / Getting Plenty / Tell Me

Tradjic Roundabout was written on the setlist but Mission Impossible was played instead. During the encore, Ian jumped into the crowd.
Martin Hannett (So Young/Tell Me producer) was at the mixing desk for this gig and recorded the gig on an 8-track. The show was filmed by ikon films but the tape remains unreleased.

From August 1985 - Acrylic Daze Fanzine, Issue 3 Paula Greenwood Interview: "One of the reasons we haven't done many gigs in Manchester is because there aren't enough venues and none of them are worth playing anyway" admits Ian.

From Simon Spence War & Peace Unedited Peter Garner Interview: Fall. That one certainly was anti-Factory/Hacienda. It’s difficult because when people talk about Factory and the Hacienda, there’s the 24-Hour Party people view, it was packed out and on one… for the people who used to go when it first opened, it was generally empty, awful sound, freezing cold. It was a bit pretentious. It was nothing like the myth. I think all of us felt that whole Factory thing… we just found it a bit pretentious. Factory completists used to really annoy us, buying things just because it was on factory… it all seemed a bit poncy. Bear in mind we were all into Joy Division and the stuff Martin had done… but it just seemed up its own arse really… it didn’t seem real.

The Stone Roses - 19 August 1985 - So Young / Tell Me U.K. Release Date So Young / Tell Me - Written by John Squire & Ian Brown. Produced by Martin Hannett. Engineered by Chris Nagle & John Hurst. Recorded and mixed March-May 1985 Yellow Two, Strawberry Studios, Stockport.

The debut release and the band's first 12inch was limited to only 1,200 pressings. The band's manager Howard Jones co-owned Thinline Records, hence the release. Howard Jones used to manage Tony Wilson's The Hacienda Club in Manchester too. He and Martin Hannett funded Thin Line Records as they both left Factory on bad terms. There was a dispute over writing credits, Brown/Squire were credited on the sleeve for writing. Something which angered Andy & Reni. 11 years later, see November 1996, the unreleased Garage Flower album recordings would see release along with 'Brown/Squire/Couzens' song writing credits for several tracks. Apparently, the release date was planned by Thin Line Records to rival Factory's Happy Mondays' debut single. Engineer Chris Nagle would later go on to produce and work with The Charlatans, Inspiral Carpets and many more bands.

Apparently the single got to No. 2 on the UK Independant charts. Depsite pressing less than 1200 copies, 200 copies of which were for promotional reasons. 500 copies alone reportedly being sold by the independant record retailer Piccadilly Records in Manchester, with thanks to Cartel's distribution around the record stores in the area.
The single was originally scheduled for an April release (see 1985 - Unreleased So Young/Tell Me Mixes).

The initial test pressing had pink labels and included a two-page press release. It was housed in a green and purple die-cut Cartel distribution sleeve. There was only 100 pressed at the time and around 10 copies are in circulation at the moment, mostly missing both parts of the press release sheets and the sleeve. At least one copy was dropped off at Piccadilly Radio Station to promote the band (see 31 March 1985).

So Young came in at number 10 in the Manchester Top 10 NME Indie Page 1985, Chart was supplied by Dave Booth & Alan Maskell, Wild Planet at Cloud 9, Manchester.

The single was breifly mentioned in 02 November 1985 - NME Magazine, under Single Reviews: So Young / Tell Me (Thin Line) - The great lost Martin Hannett produced this record, and a right silk purse too. Pure post-punk 'pocalypse of course, but even that won't persuade me to play this again.

The single would be re-released 1992 as part of a limited-edition boxset 'Compact Disc Singles Collection' with a new sleeve.

From 2001 - I Am Without Shoes Exclusive Andy Couzens Interview: IAWS: The much talked-about argument over songwriting credits which led to you leaving the band happened in 1986, yet how come the band were happy to let Ian and John get songwriting credits for the So Young/Tell Me single, that was released previously, in 1985? 

AC: The argument actually happened in 1985 just prior to the release of So Young and was presented as a "fait a complie". Reni and I both walked but were persuaded to return on the promise that it was just an image thing, nothing had changed and all proceeds would be split equally. It took me a year to realise that these people who had been my closest friends and who I trusted implicitly were in fact lying! So I left. (The naive human condition that is hope.)

From Ian Brown Q Magazine Interview by Howard Johnson: HJ: What's the worst record you've ever made? 

IB: The first Stone Roses single, So Young. It's not up to standard and the sound's no good. I'm not embarrassed by it though. Whenever I hear it I think of producer Martin Hannett who was working on it with us. What a top bloke he was.

1985 - Garage Flower Session, Yellow Two, Strawberry Studios, Stockport Getting Plenty / I Wanna Be Adored / Heart On Staves / This Is The One / Hello (Trust A Fox) / All I Want / Fall.

27 August 1985 - 01 September 1985 - Garage Flower Session, Strawberry Studios, Stockport, Manchester
Just a Little Bit / Heart On Staves / Trust a Fox / Tradgic Roundabout / Heart On Staves / Fall / Haddock / Mission Impossible.

1985 - The Stone Roses spray paint Manchester town centre

From Blood On The Turntable BBC TV Documentary, Howard Jones said: I thought it was disgraceful, but I understood there reasons for doing it. They were trying to say in Manchester, The Tony Wilsons of this world F You mate, y'know, people are gonna know we're here.

1998 - Record Collector, December 1997 - Hotel, Park Lane, John Reed Interview RC: There’s also the famous story about you spraying "Stone Roses" all around the city. What’s the true story? 

IB: Me and Reni decided we’d been ignored for long enough. We’ll cover the city with "Stone Roses". So we sprayed everywhere about seven/eight o’clock at night. That was ‘85/’86. Reni was spaying the front of a library and there was a copper stood just around the corner – but the copper couldn’t see him!

1985 - Lindsay Reade meets The Stone Roses
It was through Howard Jones & Martin Hannett that Lindsay met the band. She would later co-manage them with Gareth Evans and become a long-term friend to the band. Lindsay was Tony Wilson's ex-wife and friend of New Order (formerly Joy Division). She would introduce the band to future Elephant Stone producer Peter Hook and would also get the band another show at the Hacienda and an appearance on the TV Show OSM too.

11 September 1985 - Vive Le Rock Exhibition, The Embassy Club, 7 Old Bond Street, W1, London * Doors Open: 17:00-03:00am, On Stage: 18:00 * Ticket Price: £2.00 (Members) / £4.00 (Non-members) * Support Act(s): Chiefs Of Relief, D.J. Hamish. 

Here It Comes / So Young / All I Want / I Wanna Be Adored / Fall / This Is The One / Getting Plenty / Tell Me

This gig was a launch party for Dennis Morris's book on the Sex Pistols, 'Rebel Rock: A Photographic Record Of The Sex Pistols'. Debut performance of This Is The One.

2 October 1985 - Manchester University, Students Union, Oxford Road, Manchester, M13 9PR
Bootleg recordings quite often confuse the 02 November 1985 show with this one.

Richard Ingram (Vancouver, Canada) said: ''There was an earlier gig at Manchester University than the one in November 1985. It must have been sometime in the spring of '85, and instead of being in the large hall downstairs it was on the second floor in a much smaller room. I don't think there were more than around 50 people there. They were still aiming for a sound not all that far from punk at that stage.''

26 October 1985 - The Riverside, London * Supporting: That Petrol Emotion Despite Johnson’s best efforts at guerrilla A&R and media manipulation, when he last packed the Roses back on their coach to Manchester, it was with nothing more than a bag of peanut butter and Marmite sandwiches. Garry said: “I never saw Ian get depressed about it. Every rejection, he’d shrug his shoulders and say it was their loss. He always had faith. He just knew it would happen one day.”

02 November 1985 Saturday - Manchester University, Students Union, Oxford Road, Manchester, M13 9PR * Doors Open: 20:00 * Ticket Prices: £2.50 (Advance/Student Union Price) / £3.00 (On The Door) * Support Act(s): The Brigade

So Young / Heart On The Staves / Here It Comes / All I Want / I Wanna Be Adored / Fall / This Is The One / Getting Plenty / Tell Me.

Apparently Reni had his arm in plaster after some mishap or other — the Roses never did anything the boring way. He played the show with his arm in a sling, somehow managing to drum with one hand, and then, later in the set, decided he’d had enough of medical advice and used both arms anyway. A doctor’s nightmare, a fan’s delight.

Howard Jones recalled Reni’s legendary quest for the perfect hat:

“He kept buying hats until finally he ended up with the bucket hat and everybody said, ‘Oh, actually he looks alright in that one.’ He favoured the spaniel-ear furry ones at first, and eventually he got a proper Swiss one and looked quite cool in it. But we’re talking some bad, bad hats in the beginning. It was like anything to be noticed because obviously he’s at the back of the band. He’s not at the front of the stage — and Reni’s reason for being in a band was to be at the front, actually.”

02 November 1985 - The Stone Roses are included in the NME Magazine Single Reviews

''THE STONE ROSES - So Young / Tell Me (Thin Line)

The great lost Martin Hannett produced this record, and a right silk purse too. Pure post-punk 'apocalypse of course, but even that won't persuade me to play this again.''

16 November 1985 - Mani's 23rd birthday

22 November 1985 - Manchester University, Academy 2 

(Main Debating Hall), Students Union, Oxford Road, Manchester, M13 9PR * Support Act(s): The Brigade

So Young / Heart On The Staves / Here It Comes / All I Want / I Wanna Be Adored / Fall / This Is The One / Getting Plenty / Tell Me encore: So Young

The band had sold 800 tickets, their biggest show to date. Piccadilly Radio were running a competition to win free tickets to the show too. Pete Garner said: It was the first gig where we got out of the van and people carried our gear in for us. There were loads of students helping us to carry our gear in."

The date is often noted as '02 October 1985' or '02 November 1985' and the encore "So Young" recording is incomplete or, usually, missing.

24 November 1985 - John Squire's 23th birthday

29 November 1985 - Rehearsal, Manchester
Boy On A Pedestal was likely to have been written during the rehearsal. According to John Robb's biography of the band, the song had only been written the day before the third warehouse show.

30 November 1985 Saturday - Manchester Flower Show 2, Warehouse 3, Arch 99 Warehouse, Temperance Street, Manchester * Doors Open: 23:00 * Ticket Price: £2.00 (20p of which went to Children In Need)

So Young / Here It Comes (False Start) / Here It Comes / Boy On A Pedestal / I Wanna Be Adored / Fall / All I Want / Getting Plenty

Debut performance of Boy On A Pedestal, the track still remains unreleased today. The gig was cut short as the power supply generator blew up. The promo poster declared the show 'Warehouse 3...Take Two. What a good year for the Roses. (the Video Shoot) ...'. Once again organised by Mark and Steve Adge, of Blackmail Records.

Richard Ingram (Vancouver, Canada) said: ''I can't remember if I went to that 22 November 1985 Manchester University gig, but I was at the second warehouse party (30 November 1985 aka Manchester Flower Show 2). I remember my friend saying that there had been another one over the summer. After the generator blew, Reni threw one of his drums through the window. One of the others trashed his guitar.'' 

''Catherine Walsh's eyewitness report on the first warehouse gig mentions tickets with pennies taped to the back. Well, they did that at the second one too.'' ''In order to secure a location for their second warehouse party, the band informed British Rail that they were using the venue to shoot a video.''

Stone Roses fan Karen Ablaze said: ''I remember at the end of the show, Reni leant back and smashed the window at the back of the warehouse. It was really freezing.''

From John Robb’s The North Will Rise Again Book: 

Pete Garner: We were not musically influenced by the Smiths even songs like ''Boy On A Pedestal'' were nothing like the smiths. The weird thing was it was just another four guys from Manchester- bass, drum, guitar and vocals. Johnny Marr was into the same music and we shared a drummer! We were both into punk then we would take another route. Ironically when the Roses eventually got massive their audience was ex-Smith’s fans! The Roses eventually inherited the mantle of the truly English band. Johnny was a brilliant guitarist. I remember him always being a brilliant guitarist better than John was in the beginning but they were both great in the end. Johnny used to take his guitar to school!

From Simon Spence War & Peace Unedited Peter Garner Interview: Which we never got round to record [Pedestal]… it wasn’t brilliant… it sounds Smiths-esqe the title but I think we were really wary. Bear in mind we changed Misery Dictionary to So Young, changed Nowhere Fast to Respect… we just absolutely didn’t want to be seen as Smiths copyists … totally … not that the band hated them or anything but it wasn’t what we were about.

December 1985 Saturday - Manchester Flower Show 3, Warehouse 1, Fairfield Street, Manchester * Doors Open: 20:00 * Ticket Price: £2.00 *

The police ended the gathering early this time. Warehouse 1 was the same room as the first Flower Show, close to Piccadilly Train Station. The show was organised by Steve Adge & Mark of Blackmail Records, Steve hired & paid British Rail for the venue claiming the venue was for filming purposes. The band apparently played that night but then the party ended shortly after.

Reni collapsed after one of the band’s warehouse parties.
Howard Jones said “After the gig he had what was tantamount to a fit,” “We had to hold him down in the van. It was incredible, he was dehydrated
and so hyped, he literallywas shaking."

From Melody Maker Magazine, 1987: ''...How on earth did they get there? ''Well, we started playing at warehouse parties around Manchester.'' explains vocalist Ian. ''We'd decide upon a location early in the week, stick a load of posters up around the town advertising our appearance and then there'd be a thousand plus people turn up on the night. That's really where we learned our craft as a live band.'' ''There was one night, for example, when we were playing under Piccadilly Railway Station and the police were outside threatening to break up the party. To be honest, the situation got a little crazy because they'd miscalculated as to how everyone would react. We went on stage just as the tension was about to explode and managed to diffuse the bomb without set but it was touch and go for a while. Unfortunately, that marked the end of the warehouse scene in Manchester.''

Fans said ''This was up in the arches on London Rd. and was hard to find. It was a massive space and I think there was a bonfire and some swings with tyres as you walked in..... anyway, the band were good and I'm not sure if it got stopped by the constabulary later on.''

Garage Flower Alternate Song Titles
All I Want (All I Need Is All I Want)
Fall (I Wanna See You Falling)
Getting Plenty (Wherever You Want) (Draggin' Me Down)
I Wanna Be Adored (Adored)
Just A Little Bit (Nowhere Fast) (Self Respect)
So Young (Misery Dictionary)
Trust A Fox (Hello)

Simon Spence's Unused Chapter from his Book 'War & Peace' The Roses, at the time, had an antagonistic approach toward the Factory scene that dominated Manchester. An early song, Fall, was an attack on label boss Tony Wilson.

1985 - Garage Flower, Recording Sessions
Stone Roses. (L.P Session) Thin Line Production Tape

Side A:
1: This Is The One (Mastered)
2: Trust A Fox (Mastered) (Bmin)
3: All I Want (Mastered) (E)
4: This Is The One (II)
5: Fall (Mastered) (Dmin)
6: Tradjic Roundabout (Mastered) (B)
7: Mission Impossible (Mastered) (B)
Side B:
1: Getting Plenty (Mastered) (B)
2: I Wanna Be Adored (Mastered) (G)
3: Here It Comes (Mastered) (A)
4: Just A Little Bit (Mastered) (D)
5: Heart On The Staves (Mastered) (B)

This information was taken from an eBay U.S. auction description September 2020 for an original DAT tape of the 1985 recording sessions ''One of a handful of copies that were recorded from the unreleased (at the time) album produced by Martin Hannett. Recorded in 1985 and taken straight from the DAT. Track details handwritten. All (except one) were later released on the Garage Flower album in 1996. There are 2 appearances of "This Is The One" on this tape. I have listened to both side by side and the difference is negligible. Perhaps some minor adjustment of levels? One does have an "M" checkmark next to it and the other does not. At a guess I would think the M stands for Mastered. I have never listened to the Garage Flower album and do not know where that release's material was sourced from or how the quality on those compares to this version.

From 27 September 2013 - Andy Couzens interview: 

''Tell us about the Garage Flower songs - This album represented our first set, with the first song we ever wrote together as the Roses, namely Just A Little Bit (originally called Nowhere Fast), followed by Mission Impossible and Tradjic Roundabout. These were pre-Reni, although obviously he's on these recordings. Also, you can hear the change coming through with I Wanna Be Adored, Here It Comes and All I Want. This Is The One was written in the studio whilst recording, what was to be the album, and proved to be the beginning of a real change. Haddock is just some of Martin Hannett's feedback''. Haddock is the 'odd one out', the title is play on the phrase 'Red Herring'.

See February 1996 - Garage Flower for more information regarding the 'Official' release. The Stone Roses did not authorise the release. The story goes that Andy Couzens and Silvertone Records released the material. Andy Couzens also wrote the songwriting credits for the release, including himself in several credits. The album credits Just a Little Bit, Mission Impossible as written by 'Squire/Brown/Couzens' Andy thought the royalties would be unfair towards the bands composition writing process, despite not including Reni or Peter in the credits on the release.

1985 December - Garage Flower, Mixing Sessions
Notes: Martin Hannett produced album. The mixing sessions apparently continued into early 1986, although the tape above states the album was mastered in 1985. The band decided not to release the album due to their preference over new material and sound.

In 1991, after Martin's death, Ian Brown would buy 16 Martin Hannett 'Garage Flower' Session Tapes from Strawberry Studios. Apparently, it was Andy Couzens' 'best' mixes which would later appear on the official 'Garage Flower' album release, although Ian Brown and Steve 'Adge' Atherton had the masters.

1985 was the Roses’ “nearly-there-but-not-quite” year — the moment when everything almost clicked, but mostly in a rehearsal room.

They recorded early versions of So Young and Tell Me at Strawberry Studios, rubbing shoulders (and cables) with the legacy of 10cc and Joy Division. The sessions drifted from March to May, producing mixes that wouldn’t see daylight until much later — classic Roses behaviour: make it, shelve it, mythologise it. Even Bruce Foxton of The Jam appeared in their orbit, offering to produce their album — a surreal near-miss that could have sent the Roses down a very different path.

Instead, they pressed ahead with Garage Flower, recording the album in 1985… only to immediately shelve it. Another perfectly on-brand Roses move: create an entire record, then decide the world wasn’t ready — or that they weren’t.

They bounced between Spirit and Strawberry, met future linchpin Steve Adge, and worked with producer Tim Oliver, who seemed to have taught half the people who’d ever point a microphone at them. Rehearsals were chaotic, drummers weren’t always present, song titles changed depending on memory or mood, and tracks like All Stitched Up / All Stripped Down quietly slipped into folklore.

They played their first and only live radio broadcast across Manchester, survived foreign gigs where Ian improvised… let’s say bold lyric changes, and Reni famously drummed a show with one arm in a sling — then with both, once he remembered the NHS wasn’t backstage.

There were growing pains onstage too: the band managed to get banned from the Marquee, an achievement in its own right given the sort of behaviour that venue had already tolerated over the decades. And while the mainstream wasn’t looking their way yet, Steve Adge was already building the Roses’ own world — organising the early Flower Shows, the warehouse parties that hinted at what the band would soon become.

In short: 1985 was the Roses learning their craft the hard way — demos, bans, shelved albums, warehouse dreams, line-up wobbles, lost songs, broken limbs, bad hats, and the first unmistakeable flashes of The Stone Roses as the world would eventually know them.